So everyone wants an efficient, low heat, powerful light source for their diy projectors right? And nobody likes the idea of having to change the bulb every 50 hours or so. Or is that just me?
A while back I was browsing the topic of lasers and found there is not much of anything about using them as a light source. remp and xblocker have done extensive expiraments using lasers coupled to a tv signal generator to create an image using a red laser(very nice work by the way), but I have seen no usage of a laser as a back light for an lcd. Imagine the size possibilities of the finished product if it were powered by a Krypton/Argon White Ion laser.
You could have a desktop projector roughly the size of a flashlight. And if this isn't enough to get you going, many multi-million dollar companies are currently working around the clock to get this exact method of projection working.
I say, as DIY'ers we stand a better chance. Sure we have limited budgets, but the number of DIY'ers is large, and we all instinctively work together. How often have you heard of two competing companies sharing knowledge for a common good?
So that was the intro. Now for a couple of my basic ideas. I have seen a lens sold by a laser light show supplier that takes a regular laser light and disburses the light evenly across a plane in a solid line. I have been unable to find this supplier recently but will surely keep looking. My idea is to take this product, and the concept from the Scophony Projection Idea whereby you shine a beam of light at a rapid rotating column of mirrors which causes the light to scan at a rapid enough rate to emit a wide, solid light.
I have drawn up a couple of rough sketches using windows paintbrush to get the visual effect. This first one is the basic idea using one laser, the 'laser beam homogenizer lens' and rotating mirror column. -Note that the red line representing the laser would actually be a pure white light from the Krypton/Argon Ion laser.
A while back I was browsing the topic of lasers and found there is not much of anything about using them as a light source. remp and xblocker have done extensive expiraments using lasers coupled to a tv signal generator to create an image using a red laser(very nice work by the way), but I have seen no usage of a laser as a back light for an lcd. Imagine the size possibilities of the finished product if it were powered by a Krypton/Argon White Ion laser.
You could have a desktop projector roughly the size of a flashlight. And if this isn't enough to get you going, many multi-million dollar companies are currently working around the clock to get this exact method of projection working.
I say, as DIY'ers we stand a better chance. Sure we have limited budgets, but the number of DIY'ers is large, and we all instinctively work together. How often have you heard of two competing companies sharing knowledge for a common good?
So that was the intro. Now for a couple of my basic ideas. I have seen a lens sold by a laser light show supplier that takes a regular laser light and disburses the light evenly across a plane in a solid line. I have been unable to find this supplier recently but will surely keep looking. My idea is to take this product, and the concept from the Scophony Projection Idea whereby you shine a beam of light at a rapid rotating column of mirrors which causes the light to scan at a rapid enough rate to emit a wide, solid light.
I have drawn up a couple of rough sketches using windows paintbrush to get the visual effect. This first one is the basic idea using one laser, the 'laser beam homogenizer lens' and rotating mirror column. -Note that the red line representing the laser would actually be a pure white light from the Krypton/Argon Ion laser.
The only thing i might say is that this lasers look like something that might work better with a DLP chip then a lcd on.
DLP vs LCD
That is a very good point mike; however aren't DLP's pretty expensive and hard to get a hold of? I havent done much research on DLP's or their technology. Do you have any research links you could post?
Thanks a lot
That is a very good point mike; however aren't DLP's pretty expensive and hard to get a hold of? I havent done much research on DLP's or their technology. Do you have any research links you could post?
Thanks a lot
Nem0
There is no need for any rotating parts. Just expand a colimatted laser beam to hit the back of a regular projection system and it will work fine.
Cost for a white laser at $2000 and up will be a limitation and they use too much electricity.
Great idea though.
Cost would be greatly reduced if you could make your own laser.
There is no need for any rotating parts. Just expand a colimatted laser beam to hit the back of a regular projection system and it will work fine.
Cost for a white laser at $2000 and up will be a limitation and they use too much electricity.
Great idea though.
Cost would be greatly reduced if you could make your own laser.
remp said:
NOW you're talkin'! 🙂 Any experienced Laser DIY'ers want to give insight into the feasability/affordability of making either a white laser or a green and blue laser?
Thanks!
--Clint
P.S. I really like the idea of doing the TV signal generator coupling thing with three RGB lasers and just making a straight laser projector. Probably almost be sunlight readable if you could get a powerful enough laser. 🙂 (just don't burn a hole in whatever you're projecting it on.)
this post has given my a intresting idea...why not use the idea with a conventional light source. why not focus a light down to a very small area of a lcd panel and then use mirrors to scan the light very rappidly across the panel?
Homemade lasers
Now we're cooking with fire😎
Just spent a couple minutes and found a good link for homemade laser projects:
http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/lasers/
Seems to have very useful info. If we could do this to make either an rgb setup, or a pure white this would be perfect.
Mike: look into fiber optics for focusing light. This is a very good idea, the only reason I am interested solely in lasers is their ability to transmit long distances at low power.
Now we're cooking with fire😎
Just spent a couple minutes and found a good link for homemade laser projects:
http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/lasers/
Seems to have very useful info. If we could do this to make either an rgb setup, or a pure white this would be perfect.
Mike: look into fiber optics for focusing light. This is a very good idea, the only reason I am interested solely in lasers is their ability to transmit long distances at low power.
Look for SAM's Laser site.
There is great info there on theory of operation and safety precautions and details on practically any type of Laser you need.
There is great info there on theory of operation and safety precautions and details on practically any type of Laser you need.
Just a guess but you have no idea how much light the typical laser puts out and how efficient they are. Something in the order of 1 watt will run you on the order of $5-6 thousand and you will never make it on your own. Krypton\Argon lasers are not very efficient and they certainly do not last very long. You would need to go solid state, at which point with your theory you may as well go LED which are much more efficient and you can use many to get the light up. A typical CCFL bulb is almost orders of magnitude more efficient and you are going to get way more light for the same money.
Now the person with the DLP idea was on the right track. There is actually a device from Silicon light machines which is essentially a single line DLP. That unit has laser light scanned across it which gives one dimension, then the DLP is rotated to give the other dimension. This makes the use of a Laser much more efficient, however, the huge limiting factor is the cost of the lasers and no efficient or bright blue laser light source that is practical.
Sorry to burst the bubble....
Now the person with the DLP idea was on the right track. There is actually a device from Silicon light machines which is essentially a single line DLP. That unit has laser light scanned across it which gives one dimension, then the DLP is rotated to give the other dimension. This makes the use of a Laser much more efficient, however, the huge limiting factor is the cost of the lasers and no efficient or bright blue laser light source that is practical.
Sorry to burst the bubble....
I would agree with you if you were right. The best commercial LEDS are on the order of 15-20% luminous efficiency.... i.e. electrical energy to light energy. Even their efficiencies in the blue are quite good now. The best commercial laser diodes are maybe 1/2 this efficient and I would say more like 1/4 and that is only at long visible wavelengths.
For a truly scanned laser based projection displays (a concept around for a long time and implemented by many people), you would need on the order of 10 watts of red, 2 of green and 1 of blue for about a 5 foot image. That is a lot of laser light today.
For a truly scanned laser based projection displays (a concept around for a long time and implemented by many people), you would need on the order of 10 watts of red, 2 of green and 1 of blue for about a 5 foot image. That is a lot of laser light today.
alvaius
Quote by alvaius
Sorry to burst the bubble....
You sound like one of the other millions who know everything and do nothing.
Have you every actually handled an LED. I would be very surprised if you even have a soldering iron.
Take a back seat my friend and try and learn something before making a fool of yourself.
This whole video section was started by a respected member Vince who put in many hours work and paid for goods to try and bring a working LED projector to this forum. Following in his footsteps have been many others because an LED projector would be ideal but unfortunately no one has done it.
You want to know why. because we simply cannot get enough light out of an economic number.
Your walk in and say
you may as well go LED which are much more efficient and you can use many to get the light up.
So you could do it right.
Is that what you are saying. Could you please explain how a number of intelligent hard working people have not yet made an LED projector but you think you could.
Or are you just telling us what to do without any practical background.
Please explain.
Quote by alvaius
Sorry to burst the bubble....
You sound like one of the other millions who know everything and do nothing.
Have you every actually handled an LED. I would be very surprised if you even have a soldering iron.
Take a back seat my friend and try and learn something before making a fool of yourself.
This whole video section was started by a respected member Vince who put in many hours work and paid for goods to try and bring a working LED projector to this forum. Following in his footsteps have been many others because an LED projector would be ideal but unfortunately no one has done it.
You want to know why. because we simply cannot get enough light out of an economic number.
Your walk in and say
you may as well go LED which are much more efficient and you can use many to get the light up.
So you could do it right.
Is that what you are saying. Could you please explain how a number of intelligent hard working people have not yet made an LED projector but you think you could.
Or are you just telling us what to do without any practical background.
Please explain.
laser subject
So the reason I started this forum was to discuss practical uses of lasers to produce efficient, broad light to power a diy projector. I wasn't aware of the "flamers come here" sign being posted. If you have input as to the construction of lasers, or practical uses of such please post your input. If you believe the world is still flat, please go elsewhere and don't trouble yourselves with us idiots who have nothing better to do than use our minds. 😡
So back to the subject now...I agree completely that a DLP(micro-mirror device) would be an excellent way to go with any projection system, but as I mentioned earlier they are Too expensive, and as far as I know they are not sold to consumers at this time. So fact one is that we must use a backlit lcd panel system with a souped up backlight. Fact two is that the only working diy projectors I have personally ever seen use a high-wattage, high heat output light that needs bulb replacement every week or so. What this means in lamens terms is that if another light source is to be used, it must first be dreamed up. The process of creating an idea that has never been done before is a long exhaustive one. It takes much trial and error involving many designs of varying intellectual ability. In truth, no one design is any better than another because in the end, a good design will be built off of all its prototype designs.
Taking this into account, we should focus on some different areas for a laser powered lcd projection system. I have listed in no particular order what I think would be some good points to look into.
Homemade Lasers
Pure White Laser Light
Fiber Optics
LED light
So LED light has not been proven efficient, but that does not make it impossible. It is in fact very possible that there is some way to use laser light in combination with led light.
remp,
I am actually hoping to find a way to use just the laser light source with no fresnel, and maybe even no projection lens. I am not sure if it would be possible to do it without the projection lens, but I just have this visualization in my head of a laser projection system and I am trying to make it real. That's all for now....back to my research
So the reason I started this forum was to discuss practical uses of lasers to produce efficient, broad light to power a diy projector. I wasn't aware of the "flamers come here" sign being posted. If you have input as to the construction of lasers, or practical uses of such please post your input. If you believe the world is still flat, please go elsewhere and don't trouble yourselves with us idiots who have nothing better to do than use our minds. 😡
So back to the subject now...I agree completely that a DLP(micro-mirror device) would be an excellent way to go with any projection system, but as I mentioned earlier they are Too expensive, and as far as I know they are not sold to consumers at this time. So fact one is that we must use a backlit lcd panel system with a souped up backlight. Fact two is that the only working diy projectors I have personally ever seen use a high-wattage, high heat output light that needs bulb replacement every week or so. What this means in lamens terms is that if another light source is to be used, it must first be dreamed up. The process of creating an idea that has never been done before is a long exhaustive one. It takes much trial and error involving many designs of varying intellectual ability. In truth, no one design is any better than another because in the end, a good design will be built off of all its prototype designs.
Taking this into account, we should focus on some different areas for a laser powered lcd projection system. I have listed in no particular order what I think would be some good points to look into.
Homemade Lasers
Pure White Laser Light
Fiber Optics
LED light
So LED light has not been proven efficient, but that does not make it impossible. It is in fact very possible that there is some way to use laser light in combination with led light.
remp,
I am actually hoping to find a way to use just the laser light source with no fresnel, and maybe even no projection lens. I am not sure if it would be possible to do it without the projection lens, but I just have this visualization in my head of a laser projection system and I am trying to make it real. That's all for now....back to my research
I am actually hoping to find a way to use just the laser light source with no fresnel, and maybe even no projection lens. I am not sure if it would be possible to do it without the projection lens, but I just have this visualization in my head of a laser projection system and I am trying to make it real. That's all for now....back to my research
You can do all that. Lasers have virtually infinite focus so throw out the projection lens, just arrange the geometry of your scanner to suit the size. Most laser large screen systems do use a projection lens just for the practical aspects of setting picture size.
Doing with out a fresnel. Now you are getting into scanning like the "laser projection "thread.
What about staying on the drawing idea. No moving parts. Just have to locate/build a white laser. Or use red green and blue ones.
While you are thinking hop over to the "come into the ligh" thread. We are working on similar ideas and there could be something helpful.
Anyway, if you want a hand sing out.
You can do all that. Lasers have virtually infinite focus so throw out the projection lens, just arrange the geometry of your scanner to suit the size. Most laser large screen systems do use a projection lens just for the practical aspects of setting picture size.
Doing with out a fresnel. Now you are getting into scanning like the "laser projection "thread.
What about staying on the drawing idea. No moving parts. Just have to locate/build a white laser. Or use red green and blue ones.
While you are thinking hop over to the "come into the ligh" thread. We are working on similar ideas and there could be something helpful.
Anyway, if you want a hand sing out.
Homemade White Laser Light
So I am reading <a href="http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/lasers/LasersN2.htm" target="_blank">this</a> article on 2 homemade nitrogen lasers, one of which was made in 1983, and one in 2001. The parts used were a power supply, a spark discharge gap, nitrogen gas and pump, and 2 capacitors. It basically uses the principle the flash on a camera uses to produce a very fast pulsing spark, which is inside a vacuum sealed tube with nitrogen circulating through it. No mirrors are required, but placing one full reflective mirror at the butt end of the laser does increase brightness a good deal. The nitrogen is not required, it can actually use plain old air as the gas, but Nitrogen increases the efficiency and brightness 250%. The project is based on a 1973 article of "Scientific American".
The laser beam output is pure white, since its source is from a spark gap. This type of laser is used in conjunction with a dye laser(laser pumped dye laser). A dye cell is basically a small piece of colored glass which can be dyed any color the user wants. A list of dye manufacturers are on <a href="http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/lasers/" target="_blank">this same website</a>.
So here's what I'm currently pondering. A nitrogen laser can be built and either used as the pure white light source, or if this doesnt work it can be fed through a red, green, and blue dye cell; or one nitrogen laser for each r, g and b dye cell. As far as I can figure, this is cheap, relatively simple, and very efficient. All the technical numbers as to the wattage/voltage and light intensity are on the webpage, I dont feel like copying them over to here so if you want the info please just click the link above.
Let me know what everyone thinks of this homemade white laser.
So I am reading <a href="http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/lasers/LasersN2.htm" target="_blank">this</a> article on 2 homemade nitrogen lasers, one of which was made in 1983, and one in 2001. The parts used were a power supply, a spark discharge gap, nitrogen gas and pump, and 2 capacitors. It basically uses the principle the flash on a camera uses to produce a very fast pulsing spark, which is inside a vacuum sealed tube with nitrogen circulating through it. No mirrors are required, but placing one full reflective mirror at the butt end of the laser does increase brightness a good deal. The nitrogen is not required, it can actually use plain old air as the gas, but Nitrogen increases the efficiency and brightness 250%. The project is based on a 1973 article of "Scientific American".
The laser beam output is pure white, since its source is from a spark gap. This type of laser is used in conjunction with a dye laser(laser pumped dye laser). A dye cell is basically a small piece of colored glass which can be dyed any color the user wants. A list of dye manufacturers are on <a href="http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/lasers/" target="_blank">this same website</a>.
So here's what I'm currently pondering. A nitrogen laser can be built and either used as the pure white light source, or if this doesnt work it can be fed through a red, green, and blue dye cell; or one nitrogen laser for each r, g and b dye cell. As far as I can figure, this is cheap, relatively simple, and very efficient. All the technical numbers as to the wattage/voltage and light intensity are on the webpage, I dont feel like copying them over to here so if you want the info please just click the link above.
Let me know what everyone thinks of this homemade white laser.
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