Klipsch Synergy

[agabriel]

Hello,

I have a set of 5 Klipsch Synergy speakers and while they are ok, I would like to make them a bit better. The low end seems good to me, but the high end (dialog) can sound muddy at times. I would like to fix the muddy dialog, but I'm not sure what is causing it. It seems like it could be one of three things: Poorly selected tweeters, poor crossover, or a gap in the dynamic range.

The woofers look like decent quality compared to what is for sale on parts express, at least to my untrained eye. I have no idea how to judge tweeters. The crossovers look small. The lining looks thin - ~1/4" thick.

I took 3 of the 5 apart today to take a look and see what everything looked like. All are written up as 8 ohm. Here are a few more specifics:

Center Channel:SC1
A few measurements:
Speaker measures at ~3.4 ohm
Left - 5.8 ohm (woofer)
Center - 6 ohm (tweeter - 300-0051 0113)
Right - 5.8 ohm (woofer)

Tower: SF2
Speaker measures at ~3.4 ohm
Top - 5.5 ohm (tweeter - 160713)
Mid - 4.8 - 9.8 ohm (rolling) (woofer)
Bottom Driver 5.7 ohm (woofer)

Rear: SB2
Speaker measures at ~3.4 ohm
Top - 5.8 ohm (tweeter - 300-0051 0210)
Bottom - 3.0 ohm (woofer)

Crossover details (3 caps each):
Tower 3 speakers: 3 pos, 3 neg (parallel?) leads
Center 3 speakers: 2 negs, 1 pos (woofer - series); 1 pos, 1 neg (tweeter)
Rear: 2 speakers: 2 pos, 2 neg (parallel) leads

I have crossover pics if it helps.

Anyway, any thoughts on how to make the overall sound better?

As a last note - I don't really want to replace them for three reasons. It seems like a considerable amount would need to be spent to get better speakers. These speakers physically fit the locations with little space to spare. DIY upgrade seems like more fun - although I think help is required to make them sound right.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[weltersys]

Hello,

I have a set of 5 Klipsch Synergy speakers and while they are ok, I would like to make them a bit better. The low end seems good to me, but the high end (dialog) can sound muddy at times. I would like to fix the muddy dialog, but I'm not sure what is causing it. It seems like it could be one of three things: Poorly selected tweeters, poor crossover, or a gap in the dynamic range.

Anthony,

Although "muddy dialog" could result from the three possibilities you mention (gap in the dynamic range being unlikely unless listening at very loud levels) it is more likely early room reflections, floor bounce and room modal response causing your problems. Of course, there is another possibility- hearing loss...

Room treatment, speaker elevation height and position can correct those problems (other than hearing loss).

Equalization can correct the problem at the listening position.

Before doing anything else, take a listen to the speakers outdoors- if the dialog clears up, you have confirmed the problem is the room.

For what it's worth, without a carefully tuned EQ, my home theater speakers sound "muddy", with EQ, they sound like the recording (or broadcast). I have several EQ programmed in for different sources, "flat", "news", "BBC", "old movies" etc.

Art

 

[agabriel]

Art,
Thank you for the response.

Let me start off with the speakers have not been outside and I don't have an EQ for the theater (perhaps something to look into).

I also have hearing loss, but better significantly better speakers seem a lot better to me . The dialog is currently +5db higher than the calibration recommended.

These speakers have also been paired with 4 receivers over the years. They are significantly better with the latest receiver - a Denon AVR X1000. Although an inexpensive receiver, the built in DSP seems really good.

Anthony

 

[weltersys]

Art,
Thank you for the response.

Let me start off with the speakers have not been outside and I don't have an EQ for the theater (perhaps something to look into).

I also have hearing loss, but better significantly better speakers seem a lot better to me . The dialog is currently +5db higher than the calibration recommended.

These speakers have also been paired with 4 receivers over the years. They are significantly better with the latest receiver - a Denon AVR X1000. Although an inexpensive receiver, the built in DSP seems really good.

Anthony

Depending on your hearing loss, you may want to apply corrective EQ corresponding to the loss frequencies. With good headphones you can test your hearing :
Free hearing test on line – Equal loudness contours and audiometry

That said, after flattening out the in room response at the listening position, I seldom have any difficulty understanding dialog, even with a NIHL 50dB loss at 4kHz.

The reason I suggested trying the speakers outdoors is that it eliminates reflected sound (other than ground bounce), the lower the direct to reflected sound ratio, the harder it is to understand dialog. If the speakers sound clear outside, you know it is a room problem you are experiencing, and can take appropriate measures.
EQ can't eliminate reflected sound, but can reduce frequency ranges with excessive reverberation.

I insert an Alesis DEQ830 (The DEQ230 is a stereo unit, I purchased the 8 channel unit so I'd have a spare in case the one in my live sound system ever died) on my receiver's tape monitor loop. Not familiar with the DSP in your Denon, but most I've seen don't allow tailoring of individual frequency bands with the precision needed for what is needed to correct for room/hearing problems.

A good EQ/DSP will cost far less than attempting to revise passive crossovers or driver components, which requires a lot of expertise and measurement to improve over a decent speaker design like yours.

Divide and conquer,
Good Luck!

Art