I've been thinking about 10/12P . The 10M is nice but efficiency is awfully low. The amp I like is only 15w.
But are these really going to be great performers? Should I hold out and get a two way? For reference I have FE126en and it's ok at best, but ultimately I never listen to it because it can't do anything I need.
If I had the 12p I was thinking I could add two 12pw's below it (it being the smaller box design, the 12p) for some really fast bass that'll have about the same sensitivity, in the future. Perhaps the 10p could work the same if I took a little volume off the 12pw's below it.
I'm sure I'll get other speakers. I'm just not sure if it's worth my time to try these before I get some Piega's (love their in house tweeters).
*I Looked at the 7.3, but I'd need 3x of them for sensitivity, per channel; and I'd still be wanting more bass.
At first I was worried about playing electronica music on these, but I've read numerous people saying it's fine. My guess per the warning from manufacturer is rather that they don't play say HT sound very well, and not that it'll destroy the driver?
But are these really going to be great performers? Should I hold out and get a two way? For reference I have FE126en and it's ok at best, but ultimately I never listen to it because it can't do anything I need.
If I had the 12p I was thinking I could add two 12pw's below it (it being the smaller box design, the 12p) for some really fast bass that'll have about the same sensitivity, in the future. Perhaps the 10p could work the same if I took a little volume off the 12pw's below it.
I'm sure I'll get other speakers. I'm just not sure if it's worth my time to try these before I get some Piega's (love their in house tweeters).
*I Looked at the 7.3, but I'd need 3x of them for sensitivity, per channel; and I'd still be wanting more bass.
At first I was worried about playing electronica music on these, but I've read numerous people saying it's fine. My guess per the warning from manufacturer is rather that they don't play say HT sound very well, and not that it'll destroy the driver?
What box are they in? The difference between even a single 12p and the FE126 is huge. I listen to a wide range of music thru my Super Pensils, which will play quite loud with 15 watts, with bass too. Want more slam, get a powered sub or two.
Even more slam, go the MTM route, with two 12PW's and a A7.3, but you'll need two amps, and either active or line level passive crossovers.
jeff
Rear loaded TL horn, their high end isn't so great. The sound ok with vinyl I suppose. They're barely hifi IMO.
I've never heard them with anything other than single ended tube amps, either triode or triode strapped pentodes. Lowest bass was probably from a pair of Saburo boxes that a local DIY'er built. Then there's the peak at 7kHz.
The A7.3 (and the older A7's) have good bass output even in a modest (10 litre) vented box, and good top end as well. They just aren't as efficient as the fostex drivers.
jeff
Last edited:
Yes, well that's to be expected I suppose about efficiency. I don't need super efficient, but my 87db speakers right now are a little low. If I used the A7.3 I'd want at least 100w amp on them. I'm not a loud listener, it's just I don't like the compressed sound.
The Fostex FE126en has no top end. The bass is low unless they're corner loading. It's ok for some music, but really I don't view it as audiophile so much as vinyl lover type of speaker.
The Fostex FE126en has no top end. The bass is low unless they're corner loading. It's ok for some music, but really I don't view it as audiophile so much as vinyl lover type of speaker.
15w is plenty and if you are using the Folsom TDA7298 - I would suggest a very good 2-way such as the GR Research XL-S Encore. It's a AB blind tested design that beat many higher end speakers.
If you were willing to use two of your amps and a minidsp - I would recommend a FAST with the Alpair if you like (they have coloration and ringing impulse) and a good 8in woofer (or two). Xo at 350Hz and let the full range do do its thing with phase coherence and nice point source ability. In the case of FAST, the Scan Speak 10F/8424 or 8414 deserve at look at similar price point as Alpairs.
Slightly less expensive is the Visaton B80. All of these are in the 87dB range. If you really need 95dB look at PRV 5MR450NDY as full range with a woofer.
At 91dB level are Faital Pro 3FExx and 4FExx as well as Galaxy S5N-8.
If you were willing to use two of your amps and a minidsp - I would recommend a FAST with the Alpair if you like (they have coloration and ringing impulse) and a good 8in woofer (or two). Xo at 350Hz and let the full range do do its thing with phase coherence and nice point source ability. In the case of FAST, the Scan Speak 10F/8424 or 8414 deserve at look at similar price point as Alpairs.
Slightly less expensive is the Visaton B80. All of these are in the 87dB range. If you really need 95dB look at PRV 5MR450NDY as full range with a woofer.
At 91dB level are Faital Pro 3FExx and 4FExx as well as Galaxy S5N-8.
I don't do tubes. The heightened (fake) sense of detail is fun but not what I'm after. Also I haven't heard any that were linear enough for my interest. So since I use SS gear overheard means more since the compression takes on a different character. Hence why I think the 10p is looking like the best candidate unless I move to a larger room.
I won't use a minidsp. Active won't work for me anyway.
Honestly I'm not sure what FAST even is... And I've got a pair of full upgraded X-LS Encores to use for testing higher watt amps. Overall I'm looking for better performance. They're ok but not giving me what I need.
I won't use a minidsp. Active won't work for me anyway.
Honestly I'm not sure what FAST even is... And I've got a pair of full upgraded X-LS Encores to use for testing higher watt amps. Overall I'm looking for better performance. They're ok but not giving me what I need.
Last edited:
If not spelled out previously, exactly why wouldn't active work for you?
FAST could be considered as functionally a two-way with a crossover 2 or 3 octaves lower than smack dab in the middle of the "telephone band" - i.e. often implemented in the 200-300 Hz range, where due to the cost of higher quality components for passive filters, active of some methodology has a lot of advantages, and most DIYers are likely to have more than one amp kicking around with which to power such a system.
I'd distinguish them from the "sub/sat" type that have actually been around for decades, with commercial examples ranging from as compact as those by Bose, and Boston Acoustics in the 80's, to the Fried H ( not so tiny woofer there
) in that most FASTs I've seen/built will have stereo woofers - although not necessarily in the same enclosures.
I can certainly attest that a pair of Alpair12W in MLTL and Alpair 7.3 per side makes for a pretty decent 2-way - but my daily drivers are 10Ps across the front row of a modest 7.1 "home theatre"
Let's agree to disagree re tube amps
FAST could be considered as functionally a two-way with a crossover 2 or 3 octaves lower than smack dab in the middle of the "telephone band" - i.e. often implemented in the 200-300 Hz range, where due to the cost of higher quality components for passive filters, active of some methodology has a lot of advantages, and most DIYers are likely to have more than one amp kicking around with which to power such a system.
I'd distinguish them from the "sub/sat" type that have actually been around for decades, with commercial examples ranging from as compact as those by Bose, and Boston Acoustics in the 80's, to the Fried H ( not so tiny woofer there
) in that most FASTs I've seen/built will have stereo woofers - although not necessarily in the same enclosures.I can certainly attest that a pair of Alpair12W in MLTL and Alpair 7.3 per side makes for a pretty decent 2-way - but my daily drivers are 10Ps across the front row of a modest 7.1 "home theatre"
Let's agree to disagree re tube amps
Probably the best starting point for you. It's excellent in the FHXL enclosure. A very balanced sound with deep bass and decent top end. Plus, it looks cool.
The Frugel-Horn
jeff
Destroyer OS,
At moderate levels (75-80 dB), a single driver wide-band speaker based on the larger Alpairs (10.x/12P) in a properly designed cabinet should work acceptably with a variety of genres barring rock/metal. I have no experience with the FE126EN, but have heard the FE206EN and FE166EN, and the Alpairs are capable of better LF output in smaller enclosures.
IIRC diyA member ChrisMmm has the Alpair 10.3 (metal cone) installed in FH-XL cabinets (playing with a TPA3116D2 with your designed PSU?) - refer to following post and you might as well drop him a line:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/246248-frugel-horn-xl-alpair-10-3-10p-8.html
Full-range/Wide-band drivers are not perfect, but they can be enjoyable.
At moderate levels (75-80 dB), a single driver wide-band speaker based on the larger Alpairs (10.x/12P) in a properly designed cabinet should work acceptably with a variety of genres barring rock/metal. I have no experience with the FE126EN, but have heard the FE206EN and FE166EN, and the Alpairs are capable of better LF output in smaller enclosures.
IIRC diyA member ChrisMmm has the Alpair 10.3 (metal cone) installed in FH-XL cabinets (playing with a TPA3116D2 with your designed PSU?) - refer to following post and you might as well drop him a line:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/246248-frugel-horn-xl-alpair-10-3-10p-8.html
Full-range/Wide-band drivers are not perfect, but they can be enjoyable.
I have had a similar dilemma. I find metal/rock to be a difficult genre for many fullrange speakers, large or small.
I'm building a small lab system based on the original alpair 5. I was just going to use them alone for low level listening.
However, I remembered I have a pair of bass guitar woofers.
So now I'm planning something with those woofers as LF support, probably crossed ~250Hz.
My experience of the alpair 5 first generation driver is similar to what has been widely said before.
Warts aside, the HF at the top end of my hearing is exquisite. Lower mids are lively but a little coloured.
But overall the performance is good, build quality, suspension quality is all good.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.