Hi!
I've read many posts on various forums regarding oil for Thorens bearings.
Majority of posters recommended Mobil 1 car engine oil.
After some more searching, I discovered that Thorens recommended Caltex Regal Oil B is still produced and that it is now named Texaco Regal R&O 46. Alas, I can't find it my country.
Regal Oil is a turbine oil. Mobil has a very similar product called Mobil DTE but the smallest package you can buy is a 20-liter barrel and I guess that the same goes for Regal Oil...
So I listened to the advices here and bought the least viscous Mobil 1 that I could find. In my case, it is 0W-30.
The Mobil 1 I got:
0W-30's viscosity of 56 cst @ 40°C is close enough to Regal Oil's 43,7 cst. 10W-30 has 62 cst, 0W-40 has 80 cst...
0W-20 is ideal with 43 cst @ 40°C, but I saw on Mobil's web site that it is discontinued now...
Before I pour Mobil 1 in, I would like to hear some first hand experiences, good or bad.
My TT is TD126 MkI. It is in my possession for twenty years and I never changed its bearing oil.
My guess is that the bearing is doing just fine for now.
It makes no noises.
Without the belt and with the outer platter back in place, I spin it vigorously and it keeps spinning for full five minutes.
If you need a procedure that you can repeat yourself (your hand spinning can be different to mine), I measured that after the point that it slows down to 33.33 rpm, the platter needs around one minute and thirty seconds to completely stop.
I guess that it's not such a bad result.
So, what is the final verdict on Mobil 1?
Is there a consensus that it is 100% safe?
My main fear comes from the additives - can they damage the TD126's bearing?
Thanks,
Aleksandar
I've read many posts on various forums regarding oil for Thorens bearings.
Majority of posters recommended Mobil 1 car engine oil.
After some more searching, I discovered that Thorens recommended Caltex Regal Oil B is still produced and that it is now named Texaco Regal R&O 46. Alas, I can't find it my country.
Regal Oil is a turbine oil. Mobil has a very similar product called Mobil DTE but the smallest package you can buy is a 20-liter barrel and I guess that the same goes for Regal Oil...
So I listened to the advices here and bought the least viscous Mobil 1 that I could find. In my case, it is 0W-30.
The Mobil 1 I got:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
0W-30's viscosity of 56 cst @ 40°C is close enough to Regal Oil's 43,7 cst. 10W-30 has 62 cst, 0W-40 has 80 cst...
0W-20 is ideal with 43 cst @ 40°C, but I saw on Mobil's web site that it is discontinued now...
Before I pour Mobil 1 in, I would like to hear some first hand experiences, good or bad.
My TT is TD126 MkI. It is in my possession for twenty years and I never changed its bearing oil.
My guess is that the bearing is doing just fine for now.
It makes no noises.
Without the belt and with the outer platter back in place, I spin it vigorously and it keeps spinning for full five minutes.
If you need a procedure that you can repeat yourself (your hand spinning can be different to mine), I measured that after the point that it slows down to 33.33 rpm, the platter needs around one minute and thirty seconds to completely stop.
I guess that it's not such a bad result.
So, what is the final verdict on Mobil 1?
Is there a consensus that it is 100% safe?
My main fear comes from the additives - can they damage the TD126's bearing?
Thanks,
Aleksandar
There is a product called LaVezzi HPO Oil that is available from many Cinema Equipment Dealers(like me... shameless plug, I know!). This oil is excellent and is used in lubricating the high precision intermittent mechanisms found in todays cinema projectors(some "intermittents" have tolerances of 1 micron!). LaVezzi also manufactures most of the parts used in these high precision mechanisms so they ought to know the oil end of the buisness too. My experinece with it has only been positive over the years, This is a synthetic oil with special additive which I highly favor. Yes, I have used it in my VPI HW-19 for may years!!
I would not use Mobil 1 for this purpose as it is a detergent type automotive synthetic. LaVezzi is available in 4 oz bottles for less than 10 bucks.
here
Mark
I would not use Mobil 1 for this purpose as it is a detergent type automotive synthetic. LaVezzi is available in 4 oz bottles for less than 10 bucks.
here
Mark
You can and I have used it for that too in a pinch but way oil is generally reccomended as its just slightly tacky and will cling to the ways of a mill or lathe far better than Mobil 1 will. You will typically find that way oil will still be there days later while the Mobil 1 will just flow off. Synthetics excell at flow characteristics! Synthetics are excellent for bearings and spindles in machinery.
Its really best to follow the reccomendations of your particuluar machnes manufacturer, especially with expensive-high precision machinery.
One good thing that Mobil-1 is great for is for use as assembley lube. I use it on shafts when I re-assemble cinema projectors. I never evaporates and makes future dismantling all the much easier.
Mark
Its really best to follow the reccomendations of your particuluar machnes manufacturer, especially with expensive-high precision machinery.
One good thing that Mobil-1 is great for is for use as assembley lube. I use it on shafts when I re-assemble cinema projectors. I never evaporates and makes future dismantling all the much easier.
Mark
Mark A. Gulbrandsen said:
This is exactly why I wanted to try Mobil 1.
I don't want oil that it is tacky or clingy.
My TD126's bearing is in great condition without any play.
I don't want to add any "drag" caused by oil that is too viscous and sticky.
This would also unnecessary stress the TD126's motor and belt.
Kuja,
You read the post wrong! The tacky way oil is strictly for machine tool ways! I wouldn't want to use anything sticky in a spindle bearing of any type, but Mobil one is far from the best there is to use in a TT spindle. The LaVezzi oil is far better than Mobil-1 is for this purpose. Motion picture projector intermittents are built with tolerances that are extremely tight and the LaVezzi oil is probably the best lubricant there is to keep those fast moving projector parts in rolerance through out theor usable life...... hence, for spindles its even better.
Also keep in mind that synthetics viscosity tends to run alot thinner than regular SAE grade oils. You'll find that 30 weight Mobil-1 is alot thinner than standard weight SAE 30 is. The LaVezzi stuff is equivement to 20 weight and has worked perfectly in my VPI for years.
BTW: Those Regal and Texaco oils that you mentioned are still available but have been superceeded by the LaVezzi stuff because of its capabilitues at preventing wear under extreme operating conditions.
Mark
You read the post wrong! The tacky way oil is strictly for machine tool ways! I wouldn't want to use anything sticky in a spindle bearing of any type, but Mobil one is far from the best there is to use in a TT spindle. The LaVezzi oil is far better than Mobil-1 is for this purpose. Motion picture projector intermittents are built with tolerances that are extremely tight and the LaVezzi oil is probably the best lubricant there is to keep those fast moving projector parts in rolerance through out theor usable life...... hence, for spindles its even better.
Also keep in mind that synthetics viscosity tends to run alot thinner than regular SAE grade oils. You'll find that 30 weight Mobil-1 is alot thinner than standard weight SAE 30 is. The LaVezzi stuff is equivement to 20 weight and has worked perfectly in my VPI for years.
BTW: Those Regal and Texaco oils that you mentioned are still available but have been superceeded by the LaVezzi stuff because of its capabilitues at preventing wear under extreme operating conditions.
Mark
My recommendation is Amsoil series2000 synthetic, actually it's not my recommendation, I'm passing on the recommendation made to me by my father's friend who is a chemist for a petroleum giant not affiliated with Amsoil... He let me have a read through much of the test results from an insanely extensive research that recently took place- the tests pointed out the Series2000 as being the finest, easily obtainable synthetic.
True, Mark, the synthetics are thin and very eutectic but they will never flow out of a spindle unless there is a leak...actually I have toyed with a thorens 16X spindle and bearing by just dabbing a thin spot of the amsoil on the spindle, I could see it spread over the entire surface and stay there without having to coax it with my finger. Even without enough oil to fully fill the gap, just enough to coat the surfaces, the platter spun as smoothly as when fully packed. IMO this is as good as it gets with the performance/price/availability ratio...and a quart will be enough to treat the bearing and every tool you have in house.
BTW, Mark, I have used LaVezzi on my bike...I can't argue that it's not the finest oil. But, to me, the performance increase is unnoticeable...it just 'felt' nicer... you know, the feeling you get when you're using esoteric anything...it adds that subliminal quality....like Perrier water.
EDIT: oh, the additives will not damadge the spindle, they are there mostly cleaning agents and for break down prevention and to make the oil more eutectic(flow easier). The Amsoil is available in 1quart of 0-20. Another to consider is Redline oil.
True, Mark, the synthetics are thin and very eutectic but they will never flow out of a spindle unless there is a leak...actually I have toyed with a thorens 16X spindle and bearing by just dabbing a thin spot of the amsoil on the spindle, I could see it spread over the entire surface and stay there without having to coax it with my finger. Even without enough oil to fully fill the gap, just enough to coat the surfaces, the platter spun as smoothly as when fully packed. IMO this is as good as it gets with the performance/price/availability ratio...and a quart will be enough to treat the bearing and every tool you have in house.
BTW, Mark, I have used LaVezzi on my bike...I can't argue that it's not the finest oil. But, to me, the performance increase is unnoticeable...it just 'felt' nicer... you know, the feeling you get when you're using esoteric anything...it adds that subliminal quality....like Perrier water.
EDIT: oh, the additives will not damadge the spindle, they are there mostly cleaning agents and for break down prevention and to make the oil more eutectic(flow easier). The Amsoil is available in 1quart of 0-20. Another to consider is Redline oil.
anyone thought of using ATF like say Mobil Synthetic ATF? Why? there are no combustion products to deal with like an AT, No high temps.. somewhat like an AT, less viscous, and if you are wacky, spike with a teeny speck of molydenum. This will fill in the microscopic pores of the bearing surfaces and sacrifice themselves as well as provide less friction.
just one fact- in local cinema we have two NP21 ISKRA made projection machines;
in last 20 years we use plain 20W40 motor oil as lubricant ,without any sign of excessive wear ;I know that fer sure ,just because I mantain those machines in last 15 years.
for me-this topic is example of "just little overingeneuring" ,without fence
I own EMT930st ,same as G401 and few Lencos (L75 and L78) for more than few years ,and I know that exact specimens for more then one decade ; so-I resume that I know what I'm talking when I say that wear in one ****** Thorens (and ,yes -I also used to have one-wimpy 316MkII
) is absolutelly nowhere near same thing in projection machines..........
EDIT:
I write this strictly from position of someone who knows that Lavezi oil is not available locally for original poster ;
off course that I also prefer original EMT oil for EMT turntable and also original Iskra oil for their machines or ,in worst case ,some Spindura fine turbine oil...........but-every market has own limitations .
in last 20 years we use plain 20W40 motor oil as lubricant ,without any sign of excessive wear ;I know that fer sure ,just because I mantain those machines in last 15 years.
for me-this topic is example of "just little overingeneuring" ,without fence
I own EMT930st ,same as G401 and few Lencos (L75 and L78) for more than few years ,and I know that exact specimens for more then one decade ; so-I resume that I know what I'm talking when I say that wear in one ****** Thorens (and ,yes -I also used to have one-wimpy 316MkII
) is absolutelly nowhere near same thing in projection machines..........EDIT:
I write this strictly from position of someone who knows that Lavezi oil is not available locally for original poster ;
off course that I also prefer original EMT oil for EMT turntable and also original Iskra oil for their machines or ,in worst case ,some Spindura fine turbine oil...........but-every market has own limitations .
Sorry that I can`t comment on Mobil oil or any other potentially replacement but why don`t You just order a small bottle of original Thorens bearing oil (#7100001)?
In 1997 I ordered a bottle (among a few other replacement parts) at Thorens directly.
Costs were DM 9,75 (Euro 5) and 10ml probably lasts a life time.
I know, Thorens meanwhile has closed it`s doors but I think it should be possible to order through the successor distribution company.
Attachments
"just one fact- in local cinema we have two NP21 ISKRA made projection machines;
in last 20 years we use plain 20W40 motor oil as lubricant ,without any sign of excessive wear ;I know that fer sure ,just because I mantain those machines in last 15 years."
Choky,
Yes, Some machines are designed for this, but you should be using non-detergent oil SAE oil as it can't foam up. There were also some French projectors designed to use straight motor oil but all these designs were done because access to straight SAE oil was within easy access while in some areas the synthetic could not be had, and still can't.
Once you understand the very clear advantages of synthetics and how they are important to projection mechanisms over regular SAE oil you would never switch back. How long would your ISKRA machines last of you never changed the oil? I can easily answer that as not very long...... Well, That same LaVezzi oil is used in the Christie P-35 Ultramittent which is filled with LaVezzi oil and permanently sealed when it is built. I know of Ultramittents that have been runing in the field well in excss of 15 years without ever changing the oil! Motor oil would never be able to do that feat.
Mark
in last 20 years we use plain 20W40 motor oil as lubricant ,without any sign of excessive wear ;I know that fer sure ,just because I mantain those machines in last 15 years."
Choky,
Yes, Some machines are designed for this, but you should be using non-detergent oil SAE oil as it can't foam up. There were also some French projectors designed to use straight motor oil but all these designs were done because access to straight SAE oil was within easy access while in some areas the synthetic could not be had, and still can't.
Once you understand the very clear advantages of synthetics and how they are important to projection mechanisms over regular SAE oil you would never switch back. How long would your ISKRA machines last of you never changed the oil? I can easily answer that as not very long...... Well, That same LaVezzi oil is used in the Christie P-35 Ultramittent which is filled with LaVezzi oil and permanently sealed when it is built. I know of Ultramittents that have been runing in the field well in excss of 15 years without ever changing the oil! Motor oil would never be able to do that feat.
Mark
Mark, I didn't disagree with you regarding speciall machines ,like cinema projectors ; I'm sure that you .....no-I KNOW that you are right about that .
besides-Iskra machines are projected for that sort of oil,but indeed no detergent sort (that we also do not use ).
one machine is from '57 and second is from '65. Half of their working is with 20W40.
what I disagree is that (******) Thorens really need some sort of special oil,especially considering our local market issues
hehe-to cut a long story (short) ,let Kuji send me a PM via board or on my mail and I'll send him enough Spindura turbine oil (didn't remember exact type) or "Bone oil " (don't know exact word on english) used in EMTs.....
cheers to all !
to Kuji-my phone is 021/771-285 where you can find me after 2100 ,in case that you prefer voice over mail
besides-Iskra machines are projected for that sort of oil,but indeed no detergent sort (that we also do not use ).
one machine is from '57 and second is from '65. Half of their working is with 20W40.
what I disagree is that (******
) Thorens really need some sort of special oil,especially considering our local market issues hehe-to cut a long story (short) ,let Kuji send me a PM via board or on my mail and I'll send him enough Spindura turbine oil (didn't remember exact type) or "Bone oil " (don't know exact word on english) used in EMTs.....
cheers to all !
to Kuji-my phone is 021/771-285 where you can find me after 2100 ,in case that you prefer voice over mail
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