I need SPECIFIC super-tweeter!...Help...

In order to complete high frequencies range for my system,I am looking for a GGGOOODDD driver,and specifications following are greatly desired:

* efficiency must be 97 dB/W/m/2.83V at least.

*frequency range:8kHz~50kHz approx.

*must have strict 40°V X 90°H controlled directivity

*impedance desired:8 Ohms

*must be horn-loaded,of course!!!...

So?Anyone inspired?Perhaps a 3/4" driver?

If you have seen such a monster,please let me know.I need help...I think high efficiency afficionados would know more than me on this subjects...Any comments welcome!!!

Regards

Anael :p
 

Brett

Member
2002-01-07 6:02 pm
nar said:
In order to complete high frequencies range for my system,I am looking for a GGGOOODDD driver,and specifications following are greatly desired:

* efficiency must be 97 dB/W/m/2.83V at least.

*frequency range:8kHz~50kHz approx.

*must have strict 40°V X 90°H controlled directivity

*impedance desired:8 Ohms

*must be horn-loaded,of course!!!...

So?Anyone inspired?Perhaps a 3/4" driver?

If you have seen such a monster,please let me know.I need help...I think high efficiency afficionados would know more than me on this subjects...Any comments welcome!!!
Hi Anael,

You don't want much do you? I did a LOT of research on this subject, and there are 3 options I found, and one comes pretty close to what you're looking for, except for the 90x40 directivity (which I think is unneccessary). Oh, and it's the cheapest of the three, the <a href="http://www.fostex.co.jp/int/pages/products/spunits/unitpdf/ft17h.pdf">Fostex FT17H</a>. I spent a couple of days comparing this to the Tannoy supertweeter and few could tell them apart, and no-one consistently preferred one over the other. None of the others Fostexes go as high (not many drivers do at all!). At the frequencies you're wanting to use it, I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference in directional patterns, as humans are not very good at picking height. It has about 90 degrees conical pattern.

The other two are the <a href="http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/Industrial/IndustrialTADProductDetails/0,1445,868,00.html">TAD PT-R9</a> or the <a href="http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/Industrial/IndustrialTADProductDetails/0,1445,871,00.html">TAD ET 703</a>. Possibly the best in the world, but dig the prices.

Last is the <a href="http://www.stageaccompany.com/cdload.html">Stage Accompany SA8535</a> . And if you thought the TADs were expensive.....be sitting down. But it only does about 30kHz. Love that 108 dB efficiency though. :)


HTH
 

Brett

Member
2002-01-07 6:02 pm
Environmental friendliness

ringtheorist said:
<b>Maybe a plasma tweeter coupled to a DIY horn would do the trick.</b>

Just thought I'd buzz in. Good luck getting a plasma tweeter to meet that efficiency, even when loading a horn.

-b
But think how much you'll be helping the environment by regenerating the ozone layer.;)

Accurately building a horn with an Fc around 6kHz would be a challenge for most people too.
 
I am intrigued with your specification of an upper frequency reproduction capability in the ultrasonic!

Are you looking for a driver that is linear throughout the high end?

I notice how strikingly similar the SA ribbon driver is to the successful Infinity EMIT drivers of recent years. I have experience with these drivers and their construction. I studied them in detail after having an amplifier kill one by running away (HF oscillation).

The amplifier had in input board failure, and it is a hefty one, a Soundcraftsmen PM1600. (Pro Power 8 in some circles) It's the only amplifier I used that was capable of fully driving the RS II speakers (First generation, better cone midrange drivers).

I assure you, in terms of efficiency and capability, go with the ribbon drivers. Horn loading dramatically increases their efficiency, but off-axis effectiveness is completely dependent upon the horn.
 
The reason of my quest

Why getting to the 50kHz?response is,simply,I have rabbits and they love listening to music....

'kiddin' of course.I do have rabbits but they don't like the noisy things I listen to.

The analog support gives ability to get to the 50.000 Hz(I mean a good vinyle record,a good turntable,a good cartridge and impressive RIAA stage.

But with the new medium like DVD audio 24/192 and SACD,we can also pretend to go as high.On that point,CD is really dead for me.Sorry to shock some of you...it's personal point of view,and if you don't like it you are not forced to go on!!!Really...

Even if human ear is not able to hear"really" those frequencies,I think listening live to a Strad.violin you are forced to recognize that sound doesn't look like what we get either on CD or with a cutted bandwith at 22.05k.With so many phase shifts due to output filters,it can be heard since 10kHz that something is wrong compared to reality.Harmonics ranks after fundamental for a single violin note are very high and subtle.Even if we can't hear those highs like a single sound,they are so well integrated in the sound that it makes it really live compared to a conventional CD playback.

Like I already have horns with a perfect controlled directivity of 40°V X 90°H,which is usefull respect to clarity of sound vs.room acoustics,it is reasonable to wait for a driver which:1)can complete the highs of the 1' driver after18k 2)has exactly same directivity pattern than the horn at the frequency roll-off (round about 8k-----10k-----12k---16k !!! I don't know yet.
;)
I have already thought about the Fostexes.But the cone and all stuff gives bad off-axis regularity of the high fall of frq.response.:(

So what.Perhaps will start to DIY modify a driver to join it a horn?
I think it will not be a plasma,ribbon neither.Maybe the FT17H to be dismanteled and re-design(nice DIY accurate job!!!...)the whole thing to get a splendid complement of those wonderful Guigue Horns....

Anyone interested? :p
 
I like my SA8535 isodynmic ribbon. In fact, my design
will have 4 per cabinet.. Hopefully, I will be done by
year end on this speaker system. Always looking for something
better that has high sensitivity and great sound, so far
this one hasn't been challenged. I've been unsuccessful
to find a challenger. Perhaps is just my personal taste
as why I like it?
 
Re: Re: I need SPECIFIC super-tweeter!...Help...

Brett said:
Last is the <a href="http://www.stageaccompany.com/cdload.html">Stage Accompany SA8535</a> . And if you thought the TADs were expensive.....be sitting down. But it only does about 30kHz. Love that 108 dB efficiency though. :)

IIRC the SA with that efficiency has the wave-guide (they don't call it a horn) and gets a bit lumpy. The direct radiator version is quite superb, very robust (1 k XO minimum), and as far as hi-end ribbons go, not all that pricey (something like just over a $1k for a pr last i checked -- 2 yrs ago thou)

dave
 

Brett

Member
2002-01-07 6:02 pm
Re: Re: Re: I need SPECIFIC super-tweeter!...Help...

planet10 said:


IIRC the SA with that efficiency has the wave-guide (they don't call it a horn) and gets a bit lumpy. The direct radiator version is quite superb, very robust (1 k XO minimum), and as far as hi-end ribbons go, not all that pricey (something like just over a $1k for a pr last i checked -- 2 yrs ago thou)

dave
If they're $1k/pair that's quite a bit cheaper than I was told. My source in the US said approx the same price per unit as TAD4001's, ie about $US1700 each.

I've also heard they're excellent, though I haven't heard them myself. Have you? If I was in the market for this sort of device, I think I'd splash for the TAD if I was buying blind. I've not heard a bad one yet.

I wonder how the SA's would sound on a properly designed and built tractrix.

Cheers
 
SA compact driver

I was once able to listen to an SA studio monitor in an active setup and can confirm that this is an excellent tweeter.

But I assume that "nar" is basically lucky with what he has at the moment (ernn't you) and likes to keep it but give it some extension above the working range of his HF horns. In this case I wouldnt go for the SA driver because one would never take full advantage of it's potential when used as a supertweeter since it can be used for the HF - range in a two-way speaker that is crossed over fairly low.

I guess it is better to HAVE the higher frequency range at all than having a really flat frequency response so maybe some cheaper ribbon with just alittle more than 90 dB efficiency would be a good fit.

Regards

Charles
 
The problem is the filter is going to be a passive one,not active Xover so I need a REAL 97 dB/W/m for HF.The crossover frequency will be at 8kHz or 10kHz or 12kHz worst case,so I really need a directivity pattern at this crossover frq.which is the same as the horn for medium/treble 1' driver.
By the way it is a DE25 from B&C,but highly modified ;)

The directivity pattern required is real 40°V x 90°H!!!!Damn it...
Or otherwise the extreme highs will not be focused.I really don't like to hear "so appart treble" strange things,as my aim is not to hear them but FEEL them.:(

The slope will be mostly a 6dB/oct phase linear,more or less.This is to give the most gentle translation between high of the 1' and the super tweeter.

My last idea is to buy some Fostex FT 17H to dismantle them,get rid of the conic thing and exponential horn,then to add a DIY horn which will have same pattern as the big one.

Any feedback welcome.In fact I really need it!!!So don't hesitate giving your personal opinions :p

Regards

Anael
 
nar said:
My last idea is to buy some Fostex FT 17H to dismantle them,get rid of the conic thing and exponential horn,then to add a DIY horn which will have same pattern as the big one.

That sounds like a good plan to me. You can then optimize the horn for your application. It won't be too big so shouldn't be too hard to fabricate.

dave
 

Brett

Member
2002-01-07 6:02 pm
Anael,

I agree the FT17H is the best option. However before pulling it apart and modifying it, install it and try it as is. Then maybe use some small shaped felt blocks to reduce the vertical directivity. Minimal cost and a little time to test.

I still don't think you'll need control of the vertical directivity to the extent you do, unless you need to focus the energy for a PA stack. This is my own experience, as well as others more expert than me. I've seen comments by Bruce Edgar and Tom Danley saying much the same thing.

As for modding the FT 17H. I'm holding one in my hand now, and the flare looks to be exponential, and you'll probably need to incorporate a phase plug (the 'conic thing') or you won't get the same HF response out of the driver.

Cheers
Brett