Hypex, or Autocostruire?

[dublin78]

Hi

I am about to upgrade my Charlize T amp module, as I am using less efficient speakers these days.

My speakers are: AOS Sudio 12XL, they are 4Ohm, 87 dB 1W/1M.

I have been looking at two possible replacements:

(1) Autocostruire Class T100 HCL-m, which uses the Tripath TAA4100A, powered by a Meanwell 24v 5A SMPS.

Autocostruire il negozio degli autocostruttori

(2) 2x Hypex UCD 180 (ST, HG - not decided yet), powered by 1x Hypex SMPS.

http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD180400.pdf

I have limited space in my cabinet, but I could accomodate both options. My cabinet does not have much ventilation. Could this be a problem? See photo of housing below. It has a 12mm thick glass lid.

Please could people offer some opinions, as to which solution would give a better performance for my use?

 

[Scratchy]

Have you considered a Tripath Amp from 41Hz Audio - News ?
The AMP9 is a good single rail amp & th AMP10 is a split rail +/- 35V amp.

 

[dublin78]

I have been doing a bit of cruising on this class D forum, and have come across the TK2050 from HiFiMediy.

TK2050 TP2050 2*100W CLASS-T D TRIPATH T-AMP Board on eBay (end time 01-Nov-10 11:16:41 GMT)

This is so much cheaper than the Hypex and Autocostruire modules. Could the performance be comparable? I have read one thread where a poster suggested that they were on par.

Opinions please.

 

[kristleifur]

I have been doing a bit of cruising on this class D forum, and have come across the TK2050 from HiFiMediy.

TK2050 TP2050 2*100W CLASS-T D TRIPATH T-AMP Board on eBay (end time 01-Nov-10 11:16:41 GMT)

This is so much cheaper than the Hypex and Autocostruire modules. Could the performance be comparable? I have read one thread where a poster suggested that they were on par.

Opinions please.

If it's a good implementation of a TK2050, it's going to outclass the TAA4100A by a significant margin. Compared to the TK2050, the TAA4100A is a 4-channel high-current "brute" (albeit with very good sound quality too). The TK2050 Just Sounds Better. Check the distortion specs in the datasheet if you like. Besides the chipset difference, I've seen pretty bad reviews of the Autocostruire Tripath gear.

The TK2050 is going to be on similar footing as the Hypex - the Hypex is a little more clean/clinical, the TK2050 a little more "magic".

If the hifimediy implementation is good. It looks better than the Sure amps, and the Autocostruire stuff. I doubt you'd be disappointed if you bought one and tried.

My favorite amp is the 41Hz Amp4 however, which is the only amp I can emphatically recommend. It's a TK2050 amp, and a reaaaaallly good implementation too. I doubt I'll be building or using any other amplifier for a long while.

 

[Yves Smolders]

-offtopic- What an absolutely gorgeous case!

-ontopic- Have no experience with the chipamps mentioned - all I can say is, if you do go the distance and take 2x180HG - amps will not longer be a bottleneck of sound quality.

I was running my B&W 804S (on 2x400HG +SMPS) direct from my squeezebox this morning, just as a test - I could easily hear the differences compared to the Denon 4306 DACs (those are way better & quieter)

This is now putting me on the path to build a buffalo II dac (or at least test a decent DAC)

 

[Yves Smolders]

The TK2050 is going to be on similar footing as the Hypex - the Hypex is a little more clean/clinical, the TK2050 a little more "magic".

Yes - so it's up to what you want: Clean/clinical means - what goes in comes out. "magic" means, it's sprinkled with something.

Usually "something" doesn't work for all kinds of music. I'd go with clean, and if you want later, just add some magic dust with tubes in the preamp or such

 

[kristleifur]

Yes - so it's up to what you want: Clean/clinical means - what goes in comes out. "magic" means, it's sprinkled with something.

This is where it's up to the listener

In my opinion, it's clinical, not clean – Tripaths are really clean actually – and "magic" means that the amp is conveying the finest of fine nuances: The music is the magic.

I don't like colored output really. Tripaths just sound really really good. I really recommend you listen to a good TK2050 sometime!

If the Tripaths had "artificial coloring" or were "sprinkled" with something, you would get bored of it, as you get bored of all extra ingredients in the sound. But the thing with Tripath amps is that you just can't stop listening - to music - playing through them.

(Objectively, Tripath chips have very very low intermodulation distortion. This is a very good thing.)

 

[Yves Smolders]

Hehe, ok then we understand eachother

I don't like colored either. Color should be added at the mixing table, in the studio.

If I ever have need for a lower cost amp, I'll surely consider the TK2050, I've read a lot about it already.

Your clinical view of UCD - was that HG modules? I really couldn't be happier with them in my 804S speakers.

 

[kristleifur]

Your clinical view of UCD - was that HG modules? I really couldn't be happier with them in my 804S speakers.

Yeah I think we're on the same page

HG or not, I don't know - it was an unknown 180, which I heard for only a few minutes. (So I really shouldn't be saying anything ... )

I have to back up a little bit — I can't really say that Hypex was clinical per se ... just trying to get my point across. Both amplifier types are essentially flawless (for the money at least).

 

[dublin78]

Thanks for your replies.

Yes, I am proud of the cabinet. I made it out of laminating plywood sheets together. Here is another pic. I have since painted the CD drawer metalic silver.

Well, I have given up on the Autocostuire now. Thanks kristleifur.

I have looked at the 41hz Amp4. It is TA2050, and will not be powerful enough for my inefficient speakers.

I now have to decide between:

Hypex: 2x 180hg + SMPS180 = 400EUR
HiFiMediy: TK2050 + Meanwell 24v 4.5A SMPS = 80EUR

I certainly don't want a bottleneck in the system. The rest of the kit is Marantz CD63 > Tentclock XO3 > Diyparadise Monica 3 > quality stepped attenuator. On the other hand there is no point spending the extra money if there is no need.

It would be great if someone has heard both of these implimented.

More opinions welcomed.

 

[Yves Smolders]

You'll need to add a little bit of aluminum as well to cool the 180HG's, they will overheat on their own heatsinks.

It all depends to price & how hard you want to drive your speakers then - as I read, TK2050 will surely do 50W/ch nicely into 4 ohms. Hypex with the SMPS will have plenty reserve into 4 ohms.

I can't help to choose, I've only heard the UCD's.

 

[TheShaman]

You can look at the Amp11 HV (high voltage) version over @ 41Hz. It's similar to the HiFiMediy T3 so it'll give you more than enough power.
There will be a HV version coming out for the Amp4 as well I think but I'm not sure if it's gonna happen anytime soon.

I've compared my Truepath to various Hypex amps but I have no experience of the 2050 amplifiers. They are said to be a bit better than Truepath (and all other Tripath-based amps in general).

 

[kristleifur]

You can look at the Amp11 HV (high voltage) version over @ 41Hz. It's similar to the HiFiMediy T3 so it'll give you more than enough power.
There will be a HV version coming out for the Amp4 as well I think but I'm not sure if it's gonna happen anytime soon.

This is where the TK2050 gets a little complicated. For ~100W power into 4 Ohm, you want to power a TK2050 amp with about 30V. Then either you need to use a parallel-doubled-up output chip like the Amp11 and Hifimediy-v2.0, or you can use an output chip that can handle more current, such as the STA517B. You can buy the STA517B chip separately and put that into an Amp4 – which allows it to put out over 100W into 4 Ohms. And IMO the TK2050 sounds better when it's not paralleled.

Then there is another step, which is to use both a stronger output chip - AND to parallel that. This is what the Amp11-HV and the Hifimediy T3 do.

I'm very sorry if I sound like a Tripath/41Hz salesman But I must say that the best balance between sound quality, power, least modifications, and price - for me personally - is the standard Amp4 with the simple STA517B output chip mod. But then again I like to build the amps from scratch - which is not for everybody.

To go a little off topic ... I think 41Hz would do well to trim some fat from their lineup - for example put STA517B in all their TK2050 amps, and just drop the worse sounding amps - and then start selling completed kits. The only flaws of the 41Hz amps aren't in the amps - it's only in their sales frontend complexity, and that the best amps aren't available presoldered.

 

[Scratchy]

The only flaws of the 41Hz amps aren't in the amps - it's only in their sales frontend complexity, and that the best amps aren't available presoldered.

I see this as a retirement business opportunity for myself

On-topic - The 41Hz amps use top quality components and circuit board layouts, so you will have one of the best sounding amps around, if you are willing to assemble one yourself (lots of SMD components to solder).
The AMP11's are mono amps, but if you want more power, then getting two of these is the way to go.

 

[fb]

dublin78,

You might also have a look at audiopower.it, eg [email protected] 263EUR:
DPA-2030 [DPA2030] - €263.00 : Audio Power, Digital Audio Equipment


(Their main site seems to be down at the moment)

 

[dublin78]

Thanks again guys.

Scratchy: How much power in to 4 Ohms can I expect from 2x AMP11 powered by a single 24v 4.5A smps?

N.B. I am happy to build an amp with hole or surface mounted components.

 

[Scratchy]

24V is going to limit your power to about 50W @ 4ohms with any amp you build.
Here are the specs from the Assembly Instructions:

TK2050 FEATURES
• Class-T architecture
• High Power >100W @ 4Ω, 10%
THD+N
• 0.005% THD+N @ 70W 4Ω
• High efficiency means small heat
sink and moderate transformer
requirements
• Mute Input
• Over-current protection
• Over and under-voltage protection
• Bridged output
• Dynamic Range >100 dB

Output power 4 [email protected] rail
75W <0.01 THD+N,
115W 10% THD+N

You can buy the higher power kit with the STA517b chip which has a maximum operating voltage of 60V. This can put out up to 200W per channel @4ohms.

 

[kristleifur]

Thanks again guys.

Scratchy: How much power in to 4 Ohms can I expect from 2x AMP11 powered by a single 24v 4.5A smps?

N.B. I am happy to build an amp with hole or surface mounted components.

In addition to Scratchy's good info, I'd also like to add that the Amp11 can be quite easily powered by up to 36V. This takes you over 100W into 4 Ohms.

Edit: Oops - didn't see Scratchy's paragraph describing the same! Redundant post!

 

[dublin78]

The AMP 11 certainly looks interesting but I have limited space for a power supply. How many amps would be needed at 36V to power a pair?

 

[kristleifur]

36V gives you about 150W — 150W / 36V = 4.2A absolute max per channel. You can get away with less. A 300-350W SMPS should work pretty well!