How would you build the biggest bass bomb ever?

[boukisan]

I have a friend who is a DJ. We were talking today about how clubs have sorry bass in their setups. Our solution is to build a large subwoofer and amp unit to the tune of a waterheater/55 gallon container that we can take to each show, plug into the wall and send a signal to. I liked a design that I found showing a sonotube with facing speakers:

http://www.hometheatertalk.com/DIY_Projects/diy_projects.html

...but then after hours of reading into this subject, I realized that there is an art to it, and there must be a group of people who have experience with this sort of thing.

Our 'base' assumptions are that we would need two large subwoofers facing each other from the ends of a large reinforced tube (plastic 55 gallon drum or huge sonotube), a tuneable port, probably made of large diameter PVC, a very powerful amplifier, in turn powered by a transformer, maybe a cooling system would be required. We want to get bass that you can feel - this isn't hi-fi audio, just pure, brute bass of the strongest magnitude that we can build.

Enclosures, speakers and amp configurations are endless, but if you had a budget of $2-6k (and we will burn more if necessary), how would you do this?

 

[Cal Weldon]

With PA drivers.

 

[imix500]

If you have 6K to spend, you can totally get a pair of used servodrives or two pair of EV MTL4's and a crown MA5000.

 

[boukisan]

This is great - I didn't expect a response so soon.

I'm interested in these ideas, although I must say that my knowledge about audio doesn't go far into what you know. Although I'm sure I can figure out how to build this thing, I am not yet familiar with the products you guys have mentioned above.

Would you mind elaborating on your suggestions?

 

[Buckapound]

Have you seen this?:

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/

Some very thoughful approaches to bass in a PA setting.

--Buckapound

 

[tinitus]

http://www.cowanaudio.com/ "Horn Sub jr."

http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=hornplans

I suppose that 4 x 18" pro woofers in BR will do the same

 

[boukisan]

THANKS.
Keep 'em coming.

 

[AKN]

Hi,

Ok...
http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/index.cfm

Dual 18" horn:
http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/pa/eaw_bh_882.cfm

 

[boukisan]

I think we're narrowing it down some.
Regardless of that - keep these recommendations coming.
We want to know, with a flexible budget - what list of components would we put together to achieve this level of bassitude.

This design seems good, don't know if it's the best, or better than the EV MTL4 cabinet?
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/T48.html

or...

Something else, maybe plans for a cabinet like the EV MTL4? Where would I find plans for something like that?

Or maybe some of you think that there's a way to make more powerful bass that we can bring into the club?

cabinet design
speakers
amplifier
other components

We're going to grow and evolve this system over time. It's going to be used in small to medium local dance clubs to make people feel bass in their chest. For some reason we've rarely felt this kind of bass in atlanta clubs anytime in the last 8 years. I'm wondering what it was that Planet of the Drums was using that made it so powerful, mainly so that we could beat it - eventually...

 

[boukisan]

Thanks, Anders - this is the most informative source so far.

 

[boukisan]

Thanks to all of your information, we've narrowed it down to a final cabinet design.
We plan to build one or two pairs, once we calculate budget.
here's the plans:
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=1850horn

The designer, Rog Mogale, calls for a speaker that seems to be available only in the UK:
http://www.precision-devices.com/ShowDetails.asp?id=15

(PD 1850, and 800-watt subwoofer)

The thing is, according to some forums, availability of this PD 1850 is spotty. If I want a speaker that will work the same as this one, I need to get one with same/similar specs, which looks like a difficult task - especially since I don't know what most of these specs actually mean. For instance: in the plans under the heading 'Suitable Drivers', the designer states that the "PD 1850 and other drivers with an EBP over 125 and BLs over 28" are acceptable for this enclosure.

Here's the other specs on the cabinet:
50-200Hz +/- 2dB
105dB 1w/1m
134dB SPL average
137dB SPL peak
Tuning Freq/Cutoff 54Hz
Crossover Point 130-200Hz

So I guess my next question is - what's the best possible 18in sub out there that meets/beats these requirements?

Also, if you wanted to run 4 of these, what amp would you suggest?
The Crown MA5000? Or should we have more/less?

 

[tinitus]

The PD 1850 is special with low Fs=30hz and exstremely low Qts=0.21

 

[Rademakers]

Void Acoustics V18-1000 is a contender (don't know about availabilty in Atlanta).

Basically you're looking for a 18", 5" voice coil driver, with BL over 30, Qts around 0.2, high Xmax (~10 mm but depends on way calculated) and highish Mmd/Mms (~200 gram), Vas around 200 liter. Such a driver with ferrite magnet would weight an approximate 35 lbs or more.

You could also have a look into the 186 horn. Bassically the same design but now for more common available driver, little less on SPLmax but warmer/deeper sounding.

Indeed drivers like the PD1850 in the 1850 horn will give a kind of ripping your head of bass. Best used in stacks of 4 or more, with an amplifier that's capable of delivering 1.5 up to 2 times the rms-powerhandling of each driver (partially used as headroom).

Johan

 

[boukisan]

I had no idea that the UK was making the best speakers for D&B - at least it seems to pan out this way. The funny thing is - I may have a backup plan. My fiancee has a college friend who is a London native, and she is getting married in May. We just received an invite - right as I have begun this quest for bass. Coincidence? Dunno, but I guess I could be lugging a couple hundred pounds of subwoofers when I come back...

Thanks for the help - I'm still searching for a replacement. If anyone knows of an equivalent to this awesome speaker, let me know.

 

[imix500]

Hi, for sub duty the MA5000VZ would be my first choice.
The Crest Professional Series 8001 or 9001 are excellent amps too. You can practically weld with them.
Of course theres the Camco's and LabGruppen's, but they are new technology and thus pricey.

The Crown will do 2kW into 4ohms stereo.

The 8001 will do 1400W into 4ohms stereo and the 9001 will do 2200W into 4 ohms stereo.

These amps really need a 30A circuit to deliver that kind of power.

 

[boukisan]

30 amps:

Does this mean we'll have to have generators running outide?

 

[imix500]

Probably not, if the clubs don't have 30A circuits available you can plug them in a regular 20A outlet, but you won't be able to get the amps full potential before popping a breaker. This will go for any amp if you need this kind of power. Choosing an amp is directly dependent on what drivers you end up using though. So if you are pushing 4 500W drivers, for instance, you don't need this much amp.

 

[boukisan]

Great recommendation, Rademakers. I was sticking to Rog's formula for using the PD 1850s - the 1850 folded horn cabinet being designed around it and all. However, I noticed that ProAudioPartsUK and Rog are making a cabinet branded as the Looney Bin, and they found the VOID 18-1000 to work better than the PD 1850. So now we've moved onto your suggested speaker - it's a better speaker for the application, is more efficient, and can hande more wattage.

Now, onto the next thing. We're going to start with 4 Looney Bins, each with one VOID 18" 1000W subwoofer. You guys are saying that I can run them with one Crown MA5000VZ. How much do you think they could handle? Should I get a pair of these amps? We plan to add more bins every few months - as budget allows...

Thanks again for all the useful infomation - I've never been on a forum that works so well...

 

[imix500]

If the VOID's are rated at 1000W, one MA5000 will handle 4 comfortably, but that's all I would put on one.

 

[boukisan]

Thanks - I'll let you know how well it turns out.