How will a BIB and Sachiko differ?

Having not actually listened to either design, but having heard many reviews, I will try to offer what might be a somewhat accurate reply.

The BIB is likely to produce the most bass if it loads the room correctly. From what I have heard from other builders, the BIB doesn't have the open/ wide sound stage of a build with the front firing configuration.
The people who have built the BVRs describe what seems like a very large wavefront which makes sense considering the size of the outputs and in the case of Sachiko, the size of the baffle. My guess would be the Sachiko will make up for whatever lack of low end it might have (I say might because with it's size I doubt there is a noticeable difference in low freq output) by adding some focus and imaging abilities.

I think the Sachiko is likely the better "sounding" of the two builds, but considering the extreme difference in build complexity, the differences may only justify themselves to a very experienced cabinet builder.

I dare also say that the sound may please one listener more than another in any given room from one speaker to the next. Unfortunately, advantages can be hard to describe. I wonder if Scott cares to elaborate as to the advantages to the design?

Take care,
Robert
 
Hello,

"Having not actually listened to either design"

whow,
the developer must have measurements and impedanz,

if not, take care?

something like this.
 

Attachments

  • saxophonmess 002kl.da.jpg
    saxophonmess 002kl.da.jpg
    19.1 KB · Views: 546
crick said:
I too am wondering about that.I have a pair of very lightly used 206ES-R's on the way and wonder about the difference between the Sachiko and the Fostex recomended.I think the BIB would be the largest of the three?
Doug:bigeyes:


The Fostex recommended (Nagaoko derived) BLH for this driver is a monster (close to 5 sheets of 5x5ft BB ply for the pair), and a major PITA to construct. A non-compromised BIB would certainly be quite imposing as well, and definitely have some placement issues.

Based on extrapolation of experience with several different Fostex drivers in a variety of Scott's designs, the 206eS-R Horns, and a small BIB for FE108E-Sigmas, the first things that come to mind would be: refinement of bass articulation and soundstage coherency.

The BIB is a huge bang for the buck design - I first heard a pair of TC's, using FE164's in 2001, driven crazy by a pair of George Wright 45 triode monoblocks. There has to be a reason that Terry never pursued this as a commercial product, whereas the Voigt pipe based Abby and BEN-horn families become quite successful.

Even with proper boundary (i.e. corner/ceiling) loading, the BIB's I've heard had more discernible ripple than the same driver in a BVR, "conventional" commercial or DIY/BLH, or any of the Scottmoose SPAWN family. For example, the Aiko is the best sound I've yet heard from an unaided pair of FE108ESigma.

OTOH, a double mouthed horn/BVR etc such as Sachiko, or whichever Chang sibling best suits your driver of choice, are not without their own issues: they need a fair listening distance to coherently integrate their image.
 

gnugear

Member
2005-08-07 8:26 pm
"OTOH, a double mouthed horn/BVR etc such as Sachiko, or whichever Chang sibling best suits your driver of choice, are not without their own issues: they need a fair listening distance to coherently integrate their image."

Do you know what that distance would be? I have a smaller room and normally sit about 7-8 feet away from the speakers.
 
hm said:
"Having not actually listened to either design"
whow,
the developer must have measurements and impedanz,
if not, take care?

Musgofasa did not develop either cabinet, so there's no reason why he should have heard, or measured them is there? That doesn't mean he can't offer an opinion based on his own knowledge and experience, and what he observes is spot on IMHO. I can only really add to what he & Chris suggest by commenting that a BIB can throw up a very large soundstage, but it needs to be properly corner-loaded to do it.

As for measurements, we've had this conversation before, and nothing's changed.

Originally posted by chrisb
The BIB is a huge bang for the buck design - I first heard a pair of TC's, using FE164's in 2001, driven crazy by a pair of George Wright 45 triode monoblocks. There has to be a reason that Terry never pursued this as a commercial product, whereas the Voigt pipe based Abby and BEN-horn families become quite successful.

IIRC, they'll have been with the original FE168Sigma. I suspect Terry abandoned the idea because the 168 was replaced by the new ESigma model right when he finished his pre-production boxes for the superceeded unit. Plus, they tend to need a little more attention to placement than most speakers do -fine for us DIY types, but more than some commercial buyers would deem acceptable.
 

crick

Member
2007-06-04 10:49 pm
Thanks Chris,
I hope I didn't hastely buy the drivers.Right now my space is not that ideal.I listen in the basement measureing 13ft x 52ft nearfield with Wharfedale super 12's.I have no choice but to keep everything away from the animals.They can be so destructive:smash: I'm definetley not expecting them to behave properly in this enviroment but I can't live hear forever.Just kind of got stuck here temporarily.I'm normally used to keeping my speakers 2 to 3ft from front wall and 9 to 10ft from listening.I know about posistioning.These Wharfedales change so easily with the slightest movement.But hey,I'm haveing fun.No frustration at all. :cool:
 

ronc

Member
2003-03-08 2:22 pm
Quality is better than quantity.


I have been trying to convince my lady of that fact.

ron

he & Chris suggest by commenting that a BIB can throw up a very large soundstage, but it needs to be properly corner-loaded to do it.


According to my sims if the mouth is angled and a greater final expansion rate and curved it dosent have to be corner loaded.

ron
 

crick

Member
2007-06-04 10:49 pm
I hear you Ron.My girlfriend is a volume junkie.No wonder why I have tinidus.:hot: She also complains about every setup Iv'e ever had not having bass and treble contol.She's another destructive reason i listen in the basement.I'm glad she doesn't read this stuff :devilr:
 

crick

Member
2007-06-04 10:49 pm
actualy my cieling is higher than I thought,7ft 8".There's just a lot of obsticles.Come to think of concrete,despite the rumours that it robs some of the bass I found that it does do that but it also sounds cleaner or more defined.At least in my basement.
 

rjbond3rd

Member
2007-01-24 2:28 pm
ronc said:
Uhhh, i think you missed my point! (OT here)

Hi Ronc, to paraphrase, I think you were essentially saying that one should not reduce everything to measurement? That temperature plays a role, as does the room? And ultimately, it's a matter of what pleases?

And yet, while you can't cheat physics, it's amazing what a small driver will do when properly loaded, as long as it does not experience over-excursion?

(sorry, couldn't stop...)