I would like to try to replace PET capacitors in series with tweeters with metalized PP ones. Reading the specifications, the price/quality ratio of the Panasonic ECWF-E or ECWF-A seems to be excellent and the dimensions relatively small. In another thread there was talk about their use as decouplers on the signal line. I would like to know if anyone has instead tested them in a crossover speaker and compared them with other polypropylenes specific for audio but relatively cheap china, such as JB Capacitors or Bevenbi or others.
Thanks
Thanks
A capacitor of a stated value and specification is exactly the same as any other capacitor of the same type and specification, otherwise it is not the same value or type. Fact.
Aside from the fact that the specifications of a capacitor are many, not only capacity, voltage and type of dielectric, so only an identical capacitor has the same specifications, I also think that most of the differences are imperceptible and derive only from psychoacoustic beliefs, as happens with esoteric cables or other things that are useless, but being extremists in the opposite direction by claiming that all capacitors have the same timbre and sound identical based only on the value have nonsense.
Yeah, probably not the answer you’re looking for, lol.
That said, tweeters can be a bit touchy when going from one type to another.
Usually ok going from electrolytic to PET, but can get harsh when PP is introduced.
Sometimes a series resistor can help.
That said, tweeters can be a bit touchy when going from one type to another.
Usually ok going from electrolytic to PET, but can get harsh when PP is introduced.
Sometimes a series resistor can help.
It's a Canton Plus S, which works with a separate sub, and it's already too sharp for my taste, the tweeter should be attenuated already with the PET capacitor, I fear that sooner or later I'll have to re-set up the measurement equipment and redesign everything, is a very popular speaker but I can't find a modding already tested on the web
Is that true? Why? The ESL of the capacitor might have an effect in creating resonances, but not the dielectric. I suppose power handling could be an issue if cap can't handle the ripple current?
MKP is a relatively low loss capacitor. It will simply require added series resistance compared with caps that have higher ESR. If you want it to sound the same.
Most of the loss in MKP is the fact that the metalized film is thin (and almost no dielectric loss). Yeah, they can be overloaded, but chances are you will overload the tweeter first.
Most of the loss in MKP is the fact that the metalized film is thin (and almost no dielectric loss). Yeah, they can be overloaded, but chances are you will overload the tweeter first.
Haven’t studied it personally, but it definitely seems like a damping issue, thus resonance.
If the dielectric wasn’t a factor then we’d all use ceramic caps, right?
If the dielectric wasn’t a factor then we’d all use ceramic caps, right?
this is one of my doubts, I can't find any information about the current in the ECWFG-E (or A) series. Panasonic recommends this series for filtering, and I read that they are excellent for decoupling, but it doesn't say anything about the maximum current like, for example, for the ECWF-G series. So I ask if somebody had tried them in a crossover network
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Well it reads like you will just have to go out and purchase the caps to know how your ears percieve them.better,worse according to who. Well this means you, your the one whos listening.nobody on this forum has the answere,only your ears will know. My fave cap is the audyn tri ref.musical you bett.
Of course Michael, I have no doubt that Audyn can be better, but it costs x10 or more. I find ECWF-E in Reichelt site at very low price and without minimum quantity restrictions, as in other sites, so I am curious to understand how they sound
What you have to ask yourself is - how much average (or RMS) current are you going to send through the thing? Real long term, not just peak instantaneous for a millisecond. Any film cap will take a hundred amps for that millisecond. Longer than the tweeter VC will.
I can envision a 2000W 3 way PA cab with midrange crossed at 500 Hz potentially being an issue. The solution there is multiple parallel units. It would need a biggish cap anyway. In a typical home music system I just can’t see overcurrent on a film cap being a problem. They use these things as coupling and resonating caps in LLC supplies. Thats more demanding than your speaker.
I can envision a 2000W 3 way PA cab with midrange crossed at 500 Hz potentially being an issue. The solution there is multiple parallel units. It would need a biggish cap anyway. In a typical home music system I just can’t see overcurrent on a film cap being a problem. They use these things as coupling and resonating caps in LLC supplies. Thats more demanding than your speaker.
I was thinking the same thing but Panasonic talks about the admissible rms current:
https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/products-cap/film-capacitors/automotive-film-cap/ecwfg
https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/products-cap/film-capacitors/automotive-film-cap/ecwfg
I've measured this once with an ancient KEF kit speaker. Replacing the aging bipolar electrolytic with low ESR PP lifted the tweeter output about 1.5dB. In this particular case it was doing the speaker a favour. 😂
As for the Panasonic caps, I haven't used them only because the radial package has been less convenient in the speakers I've recapped. I've used the A types in an ACP+ pre and they worked well there. I have no doubt they'd be fine in a speaker.
Those are pretty high current, and you’d even toast PA drivers before hurting those. But I’ve been known to use the ones meant for tube amp coupling and bypass caps in crossovers too. Case sizes tend to be smaller, and the films thinner. Those might be good for an amp or two, but even that results in me replacing the ribbons again.
The problem with NPEs is that the ESR isn’t stable over time. It gets worse as the cap ages. Replace a 30 year old NPE with a film cap and it isn’t a little bright. It’s in your face. It probably wasn’t that much different when it was new - the difference would have been subtle, like that dB and a half. Far worse with the crap no name brands that often get used to save nickels on BOM cost. Sometimes the ones in the old console stereos just quit - and you think the tweeter’s bad.
The problem with NPEs is that the ESR isn’t stable over time. It gets worse as the cap ages. Replace a 30 year old NPE with a film cap and it isn’t a little bright. It’s in your face. It probably wasn’t that much different when it was new - the difference would have been subtle, like that dB and a half. Far worse with the crap no name brands that often get used to save nickels on BOM cost. Sometimes the ones in the old console stereos just quit - and you think the tweeter’s bad.
For sure, it's only really an issue if you've been listening to it with an old cap with high ESR for a while and prefer it. I have some Klipsch KG4.5 to recap at some point, as well as upgrade to the titanium diaphragm - that might be an experience. 😅