I have been a little embarrassed to show my naked cabinets, but I figured what the heck, I might as well show my pride and joy 🙂
Sorry for the bad picture quality, you can see the horrible Sony speakers on top, wish my father had come to me before buying it:
And the power house, a pioneer 7100 😱 Works for now...
Before I go into the review, unfortunately I had a small mishap...
While I was taking it to my parent's house for vacation from college, one of the woofers was damaged on the wizzer, it has a few creases, but I haven't really heard anything unusual or significantly different from the other, still I may consider going wizzerless in the future, any thoughts on a wizzerless, phase plug B20? Maybe even enabled VIA Planet 10 😀
-------------------
My previous speakers were Aura NS3-8Es I believe (the ones with the phase plugs). I decided I wanted something a little more efficient with more oomph in the midbass region and lower.
The build was fairly simple and straightforward. Took me a while (about 3 days) but I took my time with everything ensuring the cuts and joints were perfect and that they cured well before starting on another panel. I am not a professional at all but I am definitely pleased with the results.
The B20 most definitely needs a tweeter. I covered the tweeter with a piece of paper and did an A/B comparison. It sounds very dull without it...
***Loreena Mckennitt, The Visit: Played the entire track through and I was astonished with the result. Her voice truly brought chills up my spine, more so than the Aura's. I did notice a small loss in detail, but I gained a laid back and easy to listen to loudspeaker, which I prefer over the screeching 3 incher. I found that with the Auras Loreena's voice could sometimes sound harsh and fatiguing, especially when played at loud volumes. The pioneers could be cranked just before the amp began to clip with no harshness and no loss in detail. It wasn't until my friend spoke to me that I realized how loud it was hehe...the guitar in Tango for Evora was especially pleasing, and All souls night was a joy to listen to as well.
***Diana Krall, several albums: Another wonder voice, and once again the B20s did not fail to surprise me. I found myself singing along to "Gee baby, ain't I good to you" and "Temptation". Some of the tracks are in Mp3 format in 320kbps, the system finally brought out the impurities that everyone was talking about. Even at the highest bitrate, it was noticeably inferior to CD quality or lossless. For everyday listening it is fine, but I will be moving up to Lossless or CDs when I want it to sound GOOD.
***Jack Johnson, In between Dreams: Best music to relax to hands down that I own. With the Auras the basslines in some of the tracks were disappointing or nonexistent without a subwoofer. The B20s and the Chang cabinet shined in this respect. The Bass was powerful enough to appreciate, but at the same time not overpowering. I couldn't help to bob my head....
*** The Fugees, The Score and Gotan Project, Lunatico: I had to play some hip-hop and bass heavy dance music as well, I listen to nearly everything. Again, the bass was very powerful, on a few tracks though the B20s soft suspension became apparent. With most tracks, the cone control was very good in the Half-Chang cabinet, but for these albums I had to be careful with the volume knob to prevent over excursion.
In my apartment back in college, this was not a problem as the help of room gain provided sufficient bass with even the most bass heavy hip-hop tracks. In a room like the one they are currently in however (25 x 40 feet and tall ceilings), a subwoofer would be needed for a real bass head. Nonetheless I found that a subwoofer was not immediately needed to enjoy the music. Exactly what I wanted in a full range project.
------------------
Despite sounding very good, I will want to upgrade the pioneer Just to see what it can really do. As is though, with a tweeter and foam behind the wizzer, I have found that there is no rush in upgrading. It is surely a quality sounding system, not the best, but very listenable for long periods of time. Its a music system at its root, not a audiophile reference project. However, for the money (I spent around 150 with wood, no stain yet) you simply can't beat it with anything else on the market in my opinion.
If anyone has any questions I would be glad to answer them, hope this helps some of you who are trying to decide on what to get. If you are looking for an affordable, good sounding, and pleasing project, give the Pioneer a try. If you have the room then the full size chang may be your cabinet, but the Half Chang is no slouch either...gives me enough bass for my ears.
I would like to thank everyone on this forum who has been patient with me and helped me in deciding what is best for my application. Including but not limited to: GM, Scottmoose, and Dave at Planet 10.
Cheers!
-Sergio
Sorry for the bad picture quality, you can see the horrible Sony speakers on top, wish my father had come to me before buying it:
And the power house, a pioneer 7100 😱 Works for now...
Before I go into the review, unfortunately I had a small mishap...
While I was taking it to my parent's house for vacation from college, one of the woofers was damaged on the wizzer, it has a few creases, but I haven't really heard anything unusual or significantly different from the other, still I may consider going wizzerless in the future, any thoughts on a wizzerless, phase plug B20? Maybe even enabled VIA Planet 10 😀
-------------------
My previous speakers were Aura NS3-8Es I believe (the ones with the phase plugs). I decided I wanted something a little more efficient with more oomph in the midbass region and lower.
The build was fairly simple and straightforward. Took me a while (about 3 days) but I took my time with everything ensuring the cuts and joints were perfect and that they cured well before starting on another panel. I am not a professional at all but I am definitely pleased with the results.
The B20 most definitely needs a tweeter. I covered the tweeter with a piece of paper and did an A/B comparison. It sounds very dull without it...
***Loreena Mckennitt, The Visit: Played the entire track through and I was astonished with the result. Her voice truly brought chills up my spine, more so than the Aura's. I did notice a small loss in detail, but I gained a laid back and easy to listen to loudspeaker, which I prefer over the screeching 3 incher. I found that with the Auras Loreena's voice could sometimes sound harsh and fatiguing, especially when played at loud volumes. The pioneers could be cranked just before the amp began to clip with no harshness and no loss in detail. It wasn't until my friend spoke to me that I realized how loud it was hehe...the guitar in Tango for Evora was especially pleasing, and All souls night was a joy to listen to as well.
***Diana Krall, several albums: Another wonder voice, and once again the B20s did not fail to surprise me. I found myself singing along to "Gee baby, ain't I good to you" and "Temptation". Some of the tracks are in Mp3 format in 320kbps, the system finally brought out the impurities that everyone was talking about. Even at the highest bitrate, it was noticeably inferior to CD quality or lossless. For everyday listening it is fine, but I will be moving up to Lossless or CDs when I want it to sound GOOD.
***Jack Johnson, In between Dreams: Best music to relax to hands down that I own. With the Auras the basslines in some of the tracks were disappointing or nonexistent without a subwoofer. The B20s and the Chang cabinet shined in this respect. The Bass was powerful enough to appreciate, but at the same time not overpowering. I couldn't help to bob my head....
*** The Fugees, The Score and Gotan Project, Lunatico: I had to play some hip-hop and bass heavy dance music as well, I listen to nearly everything. Again, the bass was very powerful, on a few tracks though the B20s soft suspension became apparent. With most tracks, the cone control was very good in the Half-Chang cabinet, but for these albums I had to be careful with the volume knob to prevent over excursion.
In my apartment back in college, this was not a problem as the help of room gain provided sufficient bass with even the most bass heavy hip-hop tracks. In a room like the one they are currently in however (25 x 40 feet and tall ceilings), a subwoofer would be needed for a real bass head. Nonetheless I found that a subwoofer was not immediately needed to enjoy the music. Exactly what I wanted in a full range project.
------------------
Despite sounding very good, I will want to upgrade the pioneer Just to see what it can really do. As is though, with a tweeter and foam behind the wizzer, I have found that there is no rush in upgrading. It is surely a quality sounding system, not the best, but very listenable for long periods of time. Its a music system at its root, not a audiophile reference project. However, for the money (I spent around 150 with wood, no stain yet) you simply can't beat it with anything else on the market in my opinion.
If anyone has any questions I would be glad to answer them, hope this helps some of you who are trying to decide on what to get. If you are looking for an affordable, good sounding, and pleasing project, give the Pioneer a try. If you have the room then the full size chang may be your cabinet, but the Half Chang is no slouch either...gives me enough bass for my ears.
I would like to thank everyone on this forum who has been patient with me and helped me in deciding what is best for my application. Including but not limited to: GM, Scottmoose, and Dave at Planet 10.
Cheers!
-Sergio
Two things; I don't think the bending of the inner cone will make that much of a difference. And secondly, you are correct, the B20 definately needs a seperate tweater. Personally I think just about all the coaxial drivers really need a tweater. My hearing has been damaged from my military days(too much exposure to 105mm tank guns and M-16 fire), but even at my advanced age, I can tell the difference with single drivers and added tweaters.
Thanks for your input! I have been looking at your thread with the Hexagon project and it looks very promising. I'm exited to hear your results...John L said:
Regards,
Sergio
What's great about the Half Chang cabinet is you have an upgrade path for the B20 to the Fostex 207e. Thanks for your assesment including the music you listened to. I listen to similar stuff. Enjoy the speakers!
Godzilla
Godzilla
FYI, the B20's whizzers are too heavily starched for HIFI, so I kneaded them with my fingers to make them somewhat limp (damped). Combined with the $0.98 tweak and some blu-tak stuck in the whizzer/DC joint, they don't 'shout'/'sizzle', though of course the need for a super tweeter is made more apparent due to the increased rolled off response.
GM
GM
By Kneaded basically crinkled them up like my "damaged" one??? 😀 Or something else? Sorry guess my vocabulary isn't up to par hehe...GM said:
Interesting tip indeed!
The speakers look good. I also think that a different amp would probably yield a different sound.
So experiment and test it out with different amps too.
So experiment and test it out with different amps too.
Ahhh!!! I see now, did some searching and I have added a new word to my vocabulary, thank you GM.GM said:
drwho, I do intend to switch amps. Most likely I will build some kind of chip amplifier since funds are low...
FYI, the B20's whizzers are too heavily starched for HIFI, so I kneaded them with my fingers to make them somewhat limp (damped).
AHHHH! massaging your wizzer again ??
ron
(sorry, i couldnt help myself...... i am so sad)
AHHHH! massaging your wizzer again ??
ron
(sorry, i couldnt help myself...... i am so sad)
I had some massive tears that ran from the base of the whizzer, up the main cone and into the surround spidering out sideways on a pair of fullrange units I bought at a garage sale. I had no idea till I tore the grill cloth off. It sounded perfectly fine to me before I seen that, so i am guessing a little crinkling will be acceptable, specially if GM says he softens his up by kneading them.
Hew now none of that...ronc said:
Hehe, I will update this thread once I get a new amp and better(quality) music, which will be early next month. Also I will likely send them to Dave at Planet 10 for some surgery, once I get the money...Happy building!
Edit:
davidallancole said:
Thanks for the response! Well if tears weren't enough, I guess the crinkles are nothing. Still bothers me though being a perfectionist, so i may still remove the wizzer...
Regards,
Sergio
Fast1one said:
Certinly be a whole lot easier to EnABL without whizzers... it is very tight and very dark under the whizzer.
I'm working on coaxial phase plugs for these.
dave
Re: Re: Half-Chang with the Pioneer, finally!
Intriguing! Keep us posted, I may contact you in the future when they are done for "the works" 🙂planet10 said:
I have a question about a BSC filter, I am using MJK's calculator....
Do I have to take the tweeters resistance and inductance into effect and add the network once the speakers are paralleled? Or do I simply add the network before the tweeter and woofer are paralleled?
I hope that makes sense....heres a crappy graphical representation
-----------Tweeter+
-----------Tweeter-
---------BSC-------Woofer +
---------------------Woofer -
The wires then would be joined in parallel...Thanks!
Do I have to take the tweeters resistance and inductance into effect and add the network once the speakers are paralleled? Or do I simply add the network before the tweeter and woofer are paralleled?
I hope that makes sense....heres a crappy graphical representation
-----------Tweeter+
-----------Tweeter-
---------BSC-------Woofer +
---------------------Woofer -
The wires then would be joined in parallel...Thanks!
Darn can't edit my previous post, all these options are confusing me, how are these implemented?
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/passive-BSC.html
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/bstepcompo.html
They obviously remove the need for an inductor, which is nice, and I am guessing they remove the issue of sensitivity reduction if they are placed before the amplifier...
😕
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/passive-BSC.html
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/bstepcompo.html
They obviously remove the need for an inductor, which is nice, and I am guessing they remove the issue of sensitivity reduction if they are placed before the amplifier...
😕
<<<***Diana Krall, several albums: Another wonder voice, and once again the B20s did not fail to surprise me. I found myself singing along to "Gee baby, ain't I good to you" and "Temptation". Some of the tracks are in Mp3 format in 320kbps, the system finally brought out the impurities that everyone was talking about. Even at the highest bitrate, it was noticeably inferior to CD quality or lossless. For everyday listening it is fine, but I will be moving up to Lossless or CDs when I want it to sound GOOD.>>>>
Just curious: what encoder did you use to make the 320 kbps mp3's? I have heard good things about the LAME encoder (when used at 320 K) as compared to the standard one used by most. Haven't had time to experiment yet myself.
Cheers, Jim
Just curious: what encoder did you use to make the 320 kbps mp3's? I have heard good things about the LAME encoder (when used at 320 K) as compared to the standard one used by most. Haven't had time to experiment yet myself.
Cheers, Jim
LAME is probably the least evil. Admittedly, that's a bit like saying that some parts of the Titanic are less underwater than others. But if you must compress to MP3, it seems to be the best way to do it.
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