Hi,
To cross to a Seas Excel mag cone midwoofer, whose performance should be great up to 1000 - 1200 Hz, when cone effects start to become evident, I'm looking for tweeters to cross low, at 1500 Hz or maybe less.
Options to cross low, from http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-7-tweets.php#TWEETS-3/4
Hiquphon OW1 Fs 850 (or 650?), Xmax a big 0.9 mm c $110 each
Seas 27TDFC Fs 550, Xmax only 0.25 mm. only $30
Morel ferrofluid MDT20, or 22: Fs 650, Xmax 0.5 mm. only $33 (eg from Zalytron)
http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/morel.php
Human 002M: Fs 1300, but Xmax a whopping 1.5 mm. only $48
Scan Speaks seem pricey, Usher wont cross that low.
Another Seas or a Vifa??
What do you recommend?
Thanks
To cross to a Seas Excel mag cone midwoofer, whose performance should be great up to 1000 - 1200 Hz, when cone effects start to become evident, I'm looking for tweeters to cross low, at 1500 Hz or maybe less.
Options to cross low, from http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-7-tweets.php#TWEETS-3/4
Hiquphon OW1 Fs 850 (or 650?), Xmax a big 0.9 mm c $110 each
Seas 27TDFC Fs 550, Xmax only 0.25 mm. only $30
Morel ferrofluid MDT20, or 22: Fs 650, Xmax 0.5 mm. only $33 (eg from Zalytron)
http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/morel.php
Human 002M: Fs 1300, but Xmax a whopping 1.5 mm. only $48
Scan Speaks seem pricey, Usher wont cross that low.
Another Seas or a Vifa??
What do you recommend?
Thanks
Member
Joined 2003
otto88 said:
For crossing that low, horn loading or waveguides are probably the only real possible option, and even then, I think that's still probably pushing it a bit. Regardless, these designs of course create another whole set of obsticles, adding difficulty to the design. Other than that, you're looking at compression drivers, or some other entirely different technology all together, which would obviously change the whole project and design goals (i've never heard of pairing a pro compression driver with a Seas Excel midwoofer, lol). On the other hand, I'd be looking at widerange planar transducers if I were you. BG Neo8 or Neo8 PDR comes to mind. Highpass it as low or high as you want, run it dipole if you want, lowpass it to your tweeter of choice at 7-10 KHz, or whatever you want. You might already be aware of all this though. I just don't think you'll ever find what you're looking for in any small soft dome tweeter for hi-fi. Sure, there's quite a few that CAN do it, but I'm sure it'd definitely require some effort no matter what, and even then, I don't think any results obtained would be considered anywhere near optimal. Distortion sets in, limited SPL, dip in freq response at the xo point, etc etc.
Ed LaFontaine said:
This one, right?
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/h1499_27tbcd_gb-dxt_datasheet.pdf
..I agree. It does look very doable with a steep slope.
I guess it's just a personal thing that 1.5 KHz from a 1" dome tweeter just doesn't seem right to me. I've never tried it myself tho, so I can't really say. I'd definitely be interested to hear about it when it's finished, regardless of which tweeter you end up using. Goodluck.
Thanks for all the suggestions
I had in mind a 4th order crossover, but might do a 6th order an/ or cauer-elliptic. .
Seas seem to have most of the running for this .
I’ll look further into their H1212 (specs sound very promising), the T29MF I haven’t found yet . .
For this application, I didn’t want to go to the cost & complexity of compression drivers. (I’ll try one in another room system, when the slow boat arrives).
I know Linkwitz’s Orion, but the Millennium is way above budget. I’d go to $100/ driver, but prefer less.
The Neo8 will go nice and low, but I want something that doesn’t need a super tweeter. Hmm, though I do have some small ribbon super tweeters of similar sensitivity (somewhere) . .
North Creek I think is a good brand (who sells North Creek D25s?)
The midwoofers I have are W17 E002's (though I might use some Focal 6W 4311B's I have).
At least as important a reason for crossing low (as operating the stiff cone materials as far as possible in the piston range) is to maximise dispersion in the upper mids, in a wide open area.
Have searched but can’t yet see anything on the upcoming Seas waveguide tweeter Madisound. But generally Seas are very good, and two of recommended it (wins by one!).
I know some things about waveguides, but how can they assist a drivers low end usability? And where did you hear about it, a Madisound flyer?
Thanks
I had in mind a 4th order crossover, but might do a 6th order an/ or cauer-elliptic. .
Seas seem to have most of the running for this .
I’ll look further into their H1212 (specs sound very promising), the T29MF I haven’t found yet . .
For this application, I didn’t want to go to the cost & complexity of compression drivers. (I’ll try one in another room system, when the slow boat arrives).
I know Linkwitz’s Orion, but the Millennium is way above budget. I’d go to $100/ driver, but prefer less.
The Neo8 will go nice and low, but I want something that doesn’t need a super tweeter. Hmm, though I do have some small ribbon super tweeters of similar sensitivity (somewhere) . .
North Creek I think is a good brand (who sells North Creek D25s?)
The midwoofers I have are W17 E002's (though I might use some Focal 6W 4311B's I have).
At least as important a reason for crossing low (as operating the stiff cone materials as far as possible in the piston range) is to maximise dispersion in the upper mids, in a wide open area.
Have searched but can’t yet see anything on the upcoming Seas waveguide tweeter Madisound. But generally Seas are very good, and two of recommended it (wins by one!).
I know some things about waveguides, but how can they assist a drivers low end usability? And where did you hear about it, a Madisound flyer?
Thanks
> 1.5 KHz from a 1" dome tweeter just doesn't seem right to me
Linkwitz has said that he
“always crosses his tweeters around 1.5 KHz with 4th orders(both the Orion and the Phoenix do) . . with more expensive drivers .
The Seas 27TBFCG:
John at http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/ is very keen, but the FR begins to decrease at 2 kHz, higher than i'd prefer.
In Zaph’s Battle of the Non-Domes, the Neo8’s little brother Neo3 was the best, if not liked as much as the cones . .
Linkwitz has said that he
“always crosses his tweeters around 1.5 KHz with 4th orders(both the Orion and the Phoenix do) . . with more expensive drivers .
The Seas 27TBFCG:
John at http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/ is very keen, but the FR begins to decrease at 2 kHz, higher than i'd prefer.
In Zaph’s Battle of the Non-Domes, the Neo8’s little brother Neo3 was the best, if not liked as much as the cones . .
I found http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62142
In ‘05, Johh thought the Seas 27TBFCG the best in the group . . regardless of cost
Seas no longer seem to have their specs on their site. Wonder if either the 27TBFCG or 29TFFW could be crossed at c 1400, with a 6th order cauer-elliptic?
In ‘05, Johh thought the Seas 27TBFCG the best in the group . . regardless of cost
Seas no longer seem to have their specs on their site. Wonder if either the 27TBFCG or 29TFFW could be crossed at c 1400, with a 6th order cauer-elliptic?
Found the Seas specs page. http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Itemid=114
The 27TBFCG wrap from John is great for a $30 driver
"Very smooth response, down a few dB at 20 kHz.
Very low distortion of all types, particularly the near non-existent high order harmonics.
No notable energy storage problems." . .
The Fs of the 29TFFW at 950 Hz appears too high for this. Though
Seas state "Flexible lead out wires allow this driver to be used with low crossover frequencies"; and its flat a few 00 Hz below the 27TBFCG
The 27TBFCG wrap from John is great for a $30 driver
"Very smooth response, down a few dB at 20 kHz.
Very low distortion of all types, particularly the near non-existent high order harmonics.
No notable energy storage problems." . .
The Fs of the 29TFFW at 950 Hz appears too high for this. Though
Seas state "Flexible lead out wires allow this driver to be used with low crossover frequencies"; and its flat a few 00 Hz below the 27TBFCG
Well, zaph has useed the 27TBFCG as low as 1450hz and he was happy with the results. Since the 27TDFC is the same construction, just different dome material, should also do the same. Keep in mind that you will not be able to drive it as loud as if you used a higher x-over frequency but it is possible. http://zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html
Other then that the Seas 29TFFW looks like a better option since it has lower distortion, flatter response and a lower Fs then the 27TFFNC.
http://zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/
Ferrofluid or not, I would not worry about it. If it's designed properly, it will sound good. Ferrofluid also is used to increass power handing.
Other then that the Seas 29TFFW looks like a better option since it has lower distortion, flatter response and a lower Fs then the 27TFFNC.
http://zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/
Ferrofluid or not, I would not worry about it. If it's designed properly, it will sound good. Ferrofluid also is used to increass power handing.
Though it’s close, I probably do agree with Zaph’s interpretation that overall the 27TBFCG has better test results.
at thsi stage, mixing and matching components is beyond my modest skills & time.
I can wait a month or two - where was the source on the upcoming Seas waveguide tweeter?
Thanks
at thsi stage, mixing and matching components is beyond my modest skills & time.
I can wait a month or two - where was the source on the upcoming Seas waveguide tweeter?
Thanks
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