Earlier in the other thread about Semisouth, various Kaneda designs using SiC MOSFETs were mentioned.
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/semisouth-goes-dodo-what-now.222098/post-7133888
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/semisouth-goes-dodo-what-now.222098/post-7452361
The difference in gain structure to e.g. a J2 was also explained, due to limitations of currently available SiC devices.
But what if Kaneda would have a quad of Semisouth's ?
The following is our speculative attempt of such a design.
Patrick
.
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/semisouth-goes-dodo-what-now.222098/post-7133888
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/semisouth-goes-dodo-what-now.222098/post-7452361
The difference in gain structure to e.g. a J2 was also explained, due to limitations of currently available SiC devices.
But what if Kaneda would have a quad of Semisouth's ?
The following is our speculative attempt of such a design.
Patrick
.
We thought the amplifier also deserves a matching preamp.
What better circuit to use than the Kaneda No.168 Lineamp that we disclosed earlier.
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/any-suggestion-for-modification-of-hiraga-preamplifier-le-preamplificateur-kaneda.405466/post-7540216
The preamp build is posted in a separate thread :
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-kaneda-no-168-preamp.428863/
Patrick
.
What better circuit to use than the Kaneda No.168 Lineamp that we disclosed earlier.
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/any-suggestion-for-modification-of-hiraga-preamplifier-le-preamplificateur-kaneda.405466/post-7540216
The preamp build is posted in a separate thread :
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-kaneda-no-168-preamp.428863/
Patrick
.
Attachments
Audition of GoFiSS amplifier
How we set up the audition:
A few friends gathered here at my place to get some subjective impressions of the GoFiSS amplifier. I felt the most appropriate comparator here was my DIY J2 clone as both are using Semisouths and the DIY J2 clone is a known entity and renowned for its sound quality. So I set up the room for a comparison between the two amplifiers. I have a very useful AB switcher which allows the amplifier output to be switched from one to the other, on the fly if desired. The source material was either digital – streamed via a Miro1360 AD1862 DAC with valve IV stage, or from the turntable via a DIY Pass Xono clone. The preamp in the chain was the recently mentioned Kaneda K168, and speakers were my usual stacked Quad 57s. The listeners are all long-term audiophiles, with a variety of excellent systems at home and diverse taste in music – I should mention however that two of us four present (aside from myself) have a DIY J2 clone. Also, the speakers are famous (infamous) for a very narrow sweet spot, so the four of us continuously swapped amongst each other for the hot seat. There was a gain difference between both amps, so I equalised for that in advance with a sound level meter and test tones. Small differences in loudness can easily mask differences, so it was important to account for this.
What we listened to:
We started by listening to streamed material first – while we know the sound quality here is not as high as other sources, it does allow listening to many different tracks, given that each listener tends to have their own tracks they use for evaluation. Doing this is tough enough on its own, but doing it with unfamiliar material is much more so. So as usual there are pros and cons to any setup. The tracks we used were from a wide variety, from Doobie Brothers to Bill Evans, Sinatra to John Lee Hooker.
Audition Impressions:
In the end, the room was split 50:50 – two out of the four attendees preferred the DIY J2 clone, with the other two preferring the GoFiSS. Those who preferred the DIY J2 clone said the sound was more lush, smoother, and presented a better connection to what was being played. The listeners who preferred the GoFiSS talked about how dynamics/impact were better, greater spacing between instruments and it how you could pick out and follow single instruments in densely mixed tracks such as “China Grove” and “Long Train Runnin’” from The Doobie Brothers. Instances like the strike of piano keys in the excellent “Original Jazz Classics” repressing of Bill Evan’s Waltz for Debby really stand out as a real instrument with GoFiSS whereas this same sense of the hammer hitting the strings was not as distinct with the DIY J2 clone.
In conversation we talked through the preferences people had for either amplifier – those that preferred the DIY J2 clone stated a preference for the slightly warmer sound signature, whereas those who preferred GoFiSS liked the increased impact and sense of resolution without harshness. We talked through this quite a bit as I found it really interesting that all listeners agreed how good both amps sounded, and it seemed that it just came down to a personal preference. I found it interesting that the two who preferred the DIY J2 clone both use one daily with DHT preamplifiers, whereas those who preferred the GoFiSS used solid state preamplifiers predominantly. Maybe that is completely unrelated, but interesting nonetheless.
My own subjective impression:
Personally, I think the J2 is a gorgeous amp (why else would I have one?) – in fact it is a destination piece for any listener. But when you hear both together side by side, the difference in clear..... and I'd pick the GoFiSS by a decent margin. I think if you had poorer quality sources, or listened to harsher sounding / more poorly recorded music, then the J2 clone plasters over the cracks a bit better and therefore might have broader appeal. But when you want to hear into the music, follow every instrument even in complex passages with zero trace of harshness the GoFiSS stands out for me. As we were listening to Bill Evan’s Waltz for Debby, the impact of piano keys was just more real than with J2. Both played the note, but you got the impression of hammer hitting string with GoFiSS. One of the tracks the guys requested was Doobie Brothers China Grove. This was a really dense and a bit muddy track - lots of instruments etc. With GoFiSS you could track every instrument, whereas J2 this was much harder to do in comparison. I think the sense of impact from individual instruments coupled with the sense of space and soundstage is exceptional with the GoFiSS. I have often heard people talking about resolution at the cost of an amplifier having an edginess or harshness, added sibilance etc. The GoFiSS amp has none of this – it gives you a really clean, liquid sound alongside the dynamic slam and impact.
Fran
How we set up the audition:
A few friends gathered here at my place to get some subjective impressions of the GoFiSS amplifier. I felt the most appropriate comparator here was my DIY J2 clone as both are using Semisouths and the DIY J2 clone is a known entity and renowned for its sound quality. So I set up the room for a comparison between the two amplifiers. I have a very useful AB switcher which allows the amplifier output to be switched from one to the other, on the fly if desired. The source material was either digital – streamed via a Miro1360 AD1862 DAC with valve IV stage, or from the turntable via a DIY Pass Xono clone. The preamp in the chain was the recently mentioned Kaneda K168, and speakers were my usual stacked Quad 57s. The listeners are all long-term audiophiles, with a variety of excellent systems at home and diverse taste in music – I should mention however that two of us four present (aside from myself) have a DIY J2 clone. Also, the speakers are famous (infamous) for a very narrow sweet spot, so the four of us continuously swapped amongst each other for the hot seat. There was a gain difference between both amps, so I equalised for that in advance with a sound level meter and test tones. Small differences in loudness can easily mask differences, so it was important to account for this.
What we listened to:
We started by listening to streamed material first – while we know the sound quality here is not as high as other sources, it does allow listening to many different tracks, given that each listener tends to have their own tracks they use for evaluation. Doing this is tough enough on its own, but doing it with unfamiliar material is much more so. So as usual there are pros and cons to any setup. The tracks we used were from a wide variety, from Doobie Brothers to Bill Evans, Sinatra to John Lee Hooker.
Audition Impressions:
In the end, the room was split 50:50 – two out of the four attendees preferred the DIY J2 clone, with the other two preferring the GoFiSS. Those who preferred the DIY J2 clone said the sound was more lush, smoother, and presented a better connection to what was being played. The listeners who preferred the GoFiSS talked about how dynamics/impact were better, greater spacing between instruments and it how you could pick out and follow single instruments in densely mixed tracks such as “China Grove” and “Long Train Runnin’” from The Doobie Brothers. Instances like the strike of piano keys in the excellent “Original Jazz Classics” repressing of Bill Evan’s Waltz for Debby really stand out as a real instrument with GoFiSS whereas this same sense of the hammer hitting the strings was not as distinct with the DIY J2 clone.
In conversation we talked through the preferences people had for either amplifier – those that preferred the DIY J2 clone stated a preference for the slightly warmer sound signature, whereas those who preferred GoFiSS liked the increased impact and sense of resolution without harshness. We talked through this quite a bit as I found it really interesting that all listeners agreed how good both amps sounded, and it seemed that it just came down to a personal preference. I found it interesting that the two who preferred the DIY J2 clone both use one daily with DHT preamplifiers, whereas those who preferred the GoFiSS used solid state preamplifiers predominantly. Maybe that is completely unrelated, but interesting nonetheless.
My own subjective impression:
Personally, I think the J2 is a gorgeous amp (why else would I have one?) – in fact it is a destination piece for any listener. But when you hear both together side by side, the difference in clear..... and I'd pick the GoFiSS by a decent margin. I think if you had poorer quality sources, or listened to harsher sounding / more poorly recorded music, then the J2 clone plasters over the cracks a bit better and therefore might have broader appeal. But when you want to hear into the music, follow every instrument even in complex passages with zero trace of harshness the GoFiSS stands out for me. As we were listening to Bill Evan’s Waltz for Debby, the impact of piano keys was just more real than with J2. Both played the note, but you got the impression of hammer hitting string with GoFiSS. One of the tracks the guys requested was Doobie Brothers China Grove. This was a really dense and a bit muddy track - lots of instruments etc. With GoFiSS you could track every instrument, whereas J2 this was much harder to do in comparison. I think the sense of impact from individual instruments coupled with the sense of space and soundstage is exceptional with the GoFiSS. I have often heard people talking about resolution at the cost of an amplifier having an edginess or harshness, added sibilance etc. The GoFiSS amp has none of this – it gives you a really clean, liquid sound alongside the dynamic slam and impact.
Fran
The review by Fran I find very interesting.
And I do agree with his subjective impressions.
Not so long ago, everyone was after supersymmetry.
There were even ideas of using supersymmetry for chipamps.
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/gc-supersymmetry.36398/
Of course, supersymmetry means cancellation of even harmonics, leaving only odd, predominantly third.
But fashion today seems to shift towards high 2nd order.
But even equipment with predominantly 2nd doesn't mean they don't have third.
And third almost always increases with output power level.
https://www.firstwatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/art_f6_baf.pdf
Unless you can implement third harmonics cancellations described by John Curl.
The following site I find equally interesting :
https://mozzaik-audio.com/blog/why-do-some-distortions-sound-good
Quote :
"Distortions covers details that also become inaudable. We lose details but sound stays the same.
That details could be other distortions that we don't wan't to hear or fine details that we would like to hear.
With good sound source and high quality speakers we would like to hear those fine details.
When we make distortions smaller and simmilar to our ears distortions only shifted in phase we will get details that were inaudable previously and with them more convincing and intimate sound."
That seems to agree with what Fran perceives with the difference in amount of details between the two amps.
The other article that also attracted my attention :
https://audioxpress.com/article/Musicality-and-Distortion-A-Conversation
Again, being also an engineer by profession, I cannot agree more with Jan.
But as I always say, there is no universal truth in audio.
It is purely subjective, so everyone is free to choose what suits himself.
The F6 article above actually describe circuit features that allows you to adjust the harmonic contents to taste.
Patrick
PS
Incidentally, John Curl has mentioned in an interview that cassette tape decks are mostly 3rd harmonics,
And that doesn't means that they don't sound nice.
And I do agree with his subjective impressions.
Not so long ago, everyone was after supersymmetry.
There were even ideas of using supersymmetry for chipamps.
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/gc-supersymmetry.36398/
Of course, supersymmetry means cancellation of even harmonics, leaving only odd, predominantly third.
But fashion today seems to shift towards high 2nd order.
But even equipment with predominantly 2nd doesn't mean they don't have third.
And third almost always increases with output power level.
https://www.firstwatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/art_f6_baf.pdf
Unless you can implement third harmonics cancellations described by John Curl.
The following site I find equally interesting :
https://mozzaik-audio.com/blog/why-do-some-distortions-sound-good
Quote :
"Distortions covers details that also become inaudable. We lose details but sound stays the same.
That details could be other distortions that we don't wan't to hear or fine details that we would like to hear.
With good sound source and high quality speakers we would like to hear those fine details.
When we make distortions smaller and simmilar to our ears distortions only shifted in phase we will get details that were inaudable previously and with them more convincing and intimate sound."
That seems to agree with what Fran perceives with the difference in amount of details between the two amps.
The other article that also attracted my attention :
https://audioxpress.com/article/Musicality-and-Distortion-A-Conversation
Again, being also an engineer by profession, I cannot agree more with Jan.
But as I always say, there is no universal truth in audio.
It is purely subjective, so everyone is free to choose what suits himself.
The F6 article above actually describe circuit features that allows you to adjust the harmonic contents to taste.
Patrick
PS
Incidentally, John Curl has mentioned in an interview that cassette tape decks are mostly 3rd harmonics,
And that doesn't means that they don't sound nice.
Last edited:
I have been asked about supporting a public project for the GoFiSS.
We can, but only for a limited number of sets.
I need to get back home from business trip first.
We shall get organised and make some announcements this weekend.
Patrick
We can, but only for a limited number of sets.
I need to get back home from business trip first.
We shall get organised and make some announcements this weekend.
Patrick
Last edited:
Irrespective of price ?
😊
As always, our primary goal is to enable projects.
We shall be very reasonable.
Patrick
😊
As always, our primary goal is to enable projects.
We shall be very reasonable.
Patrick
Can one join in the GoFiss build party if two matched pairs of SS’s are already in the parts bin?
Each channel of GoFiSS requires :
1 pair of Semisouth's
1 pair of 2SK170BL
2 pairs of FQP3P20
We probably can support 10+ sets.
But we need to check what quantities of FQP's we have to offer.
Fran also has to finish the K168 GB first.
So kindly bear with us.
We shall take note of those who have expressed interest.
Patrick
1 pair of Semisouth's
1 pair of 2SK170BL
2 pairs of FQP3P20
We probably can support 10+ sets.
But we need to check what quantities of FQP's we have to offer.
Fran also has to finish the K168 GB first.
So kindly bear with us.
We shall take note of those who have expressed interest.
Patrick
OK, I will use my quad of Semisouth’s so you have another kit available.
But, I would still need the K170’s and FQP’s.
Absolutely!
Thanks Patrick👍🏻
But, I would still need the K170’s and FQP’s.
Absolutely!
Thanks Patrick👍🏻
Thank you Patrick! Having signed up for the preamp, please consider me signing up for this future GB if there is room. We will, of course, patiently wait for the preamp GB to wrap up.