I may have found a cheap and perhaps non-elegant solution to my problem: gain staging my system. First, I have an odd system 🙂
PC->DAC-> pre-amp (Xiang-Sheng DAC-01) -> MiniDSP 2x4 -> (biamped currently) -> Behringer NUxxxx amps -> Sonotube subwoofer & Bose 901 speakers (>50 Hz.)
Worth noting? The MiniDSP serves as "Bose active EQ" as well as room EQ and crossover, and ...
The gain problem seems to have been that I could not feed a high enough signal to the INukes, or even the MiniDSP (2 V max inputs).
And the solution...? Seems to have been instead of trying to get more gain out of the line outs (can't measure, but apparently many pre's don't do any line amp gain) I tried using the headphone outs (adaptor to RCA male plugs) and now I seem to have enough gain and amazingly the noise is low/acceptable.
PC->DAC-> pre-amp (Xiang-Sheng DAC-01) -> MiniDSP 2x4 -> (biamped currently) -> Behringer NUxxxx amps -> Sonotube subwoofer & Bose 901 speakers (>50 Hz.)
Worth noting? The MiniDSP serves as "Bose active EQ" as well as room EQ and crossover, and ...
The gain problem seems to have been that I could not feed a high enough signal to the INukes, or even the MiniDSP (2 V max inputs).
And the solution...? Seems to have been instead of trying to get more gain out of the line outs (can't measure, but apparently many pre's don't do any line amp gain) I tried using the headphone outs (adaptor to RCA male plugs) and now I seem to have enough gain and amazingly the noise is low/acceptable.
just an advice, replace those Behringer amps with something domestic designed which not only sounds better, but has enough gain so you can go back to line level output
You are entitiled to your opinion, of course. I actually have gone the other way (to cheaper equipment). I mean, didn't you see "Bose 901" in my first post. I have sort of disqualified myself from high end that way 🙂
I remain a skeptic of many of the claims of better sound quality. If you can hear a difference, great! Not to say that differences never exist, but anything approaching a objective listening test is pretty rare. Being a skeptic, I assert that the reason is because very rarely would a difference be heard, much to the chagrin of those who have an interest in selling expensive equipment.
We humans are very liable to many biases including "confirmation bias" that cloud our thinking. Until somebody can prove that A is better than B, I will go with the cheapest that meets my needs.
I remain a skeptic of many of the claims of better sound quality. If you can hear a difference, great! Not to say that differences never exist, but anything approaching a objective listening test is pretty rare. Being a skeptic, I assert that the reason is because very rarely would a difference be heard, much to the chagrin of those who have an interest in selling expensive equipment.
We humans are very liable to many biases including "confirmation bias" that cloud our thinking. Until somebody can prove that A is better than B, I will go with the cheapest that meets my needs.
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Whatever makes you happy does the trick, if an amp measures well, the best improvement comes from good speakers.
If you want to take it further, without spending much money (and you can use a soldering iron) I recommend a JC-2 clone preamp kit from jims audio on ebay. It will give you x3 gain and if you set the rail voltage to 19v, it sounds very dynamic for the money. Whatever floats your boat, enjoy the music.
If you want to take it further, without spending much money (and you can use a soldering iron) I recommend a JC-2 clone preamp kit from jims audio on ebay. It will give you x3 gain and if you set the rail voltage to 19v, it sounds very dynamic for the money. Whatever floats your boat, enjoy the music.
jc-2 kit is great value preamp, some tube preamps on ebay can be found even as better deal (6N11 preamp)
but unless you use just a buffer for an amp (an there is quite a few good ones out there) you should not need preamp after the miniDSP
most amps will reach full power with just line level signal
you are entitled to your opinion about amps off course
but unless you use just a buffer for an amp (an there is quite a few good ones out there) you should not need preamp after the miniDSP
most amps will reach full power with just line level signal
you are entitled to your opinion about amps off course
Davym, I must disagree! At least KFC sells chicken (and I like it, thought do not eat there often.) On the other hand, I never was a fan of MTV and as some pop song said in 1985 "there was music on MTV." The few times I've ever turned it on, there was advertising instead of music.
Lacking test gear (or not having tried to measure) I am not sure why I need more gain. I have my MiniDSP set to 2V input and output. It may be, because I use it for the Bose and room EQ, that my curve is too extreme...there is about 30 dB difference between bass and lowest mids. Also, my pre appears to not do net line gain (as a line stage) until I discovered the headphone out.
In any event, the fact that both pre and NU6000 had gain set to max and the volume was only "reasonable" called for more gain 🙂
Lacking test gear (or not having tried to measure) I am not sure why I need more gain. I have my MiniDSP set to 2V input and output. It may be, because I use it for the Bose and room EQ, that my curve is too extreme...there is about 30 dB difference between bass and lowest mids. Also, my pre appears to not do net line gain (as a line stage) until I discovered the headphone out.
In any event, the fact that both pre and NU6000 had gain set to max and the volume was only "reasonable" called for more gain 🙂
actually, they are from a time when Mr Bose had a very good reputation
hifi gear should have any audible noise
but good for you having finally found something that works ok ... could be worse I guess 😀
A follow up to this: while I'm still using more or less the same set-up, I am again wishing for more gain before the Behringer iNukes (two NU3000 currently).
A correction: I believe the maximum out of the MiniDSP unbalanced 2x4 is 0.8 V.
I've again searched for inexpensive line amp solutions and found not much of value until tonight when I found yet another Behringer product:
Behringer: ULTRALINK PRO MX882
This versatile unit among other tricks is a 6 (or 8? The routing options vexeth me) channel level matching unit. Balanced or unbalanced ins, outs. Adjustable in/out levels. and this caught my eye: up to 15 dB gain. The manual also notes it can adapt levels for home gear to pro gear and vice versa. In theory if I stay balanced it should add no noise of its own. For $99 and three year warranty I think I'll try one 🙂
A correction: I believe the maximum out of the MiniDSP unbalanced 2x4 is 0.8 V.
I've again searched for inexpensive line amp solutions and found not much of value until tonight when I found yet another Behringer product:
Behringer: ULTRALINK PRO MX882
This versatile unit among other tricks is a 6 (or 8? The routing options vexeth me) channel level matching unit. Balanced or unbalanced ins, outs. Adjustable in/out levels. and this caught my eye: up to 15 dB gain. The manual also notes it can adapt levels for home gear to pro gear and vice versa. In theory if I stay balanced it should add no noise of its own. For $99 and three year warranty I think I'll try one 🙂
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