F200a in BIB???

I am building a music studio in one of my bedrooms which is 11x12 with 8 foot ceilings with hard wood floors. The room will be treated with corner bass traps using cotton insulation.

The instruments in the room will be a harp and violin with a MIDI controller for the piano. I am going to use quantum leap pianos with the controller through the speakers. The music will mainly be acoustic instrument samples and internet radio in the background. These speakers need to be as close to the corners as possible.

I was thinking of using Fostex F200a in a BIB, but no one has done it seems. I am looking for a setup that will give the same bass as a B20 in a half chang, but with more detail. Speakers need to be forgiving of harsh recordings.

Setup will be EMU 0404-Sabre DAC- Promethius Tube Buffer-Tripath TK2050 amps.
 
>>> I am looking for a setup that will give the same bass as a B20 in a half chang, but with more detail.

I think this will be a great option for you!

Below are the original dims for this driver in a BIB. Open the BIB calculator and see what the latest math gives you. It looks to be one of the slimmer BIBs. I think it will have an elegant look and make an amazing sound in your space.

BIB Calculator - Bigger Is Better Loudspeaker Design

Fostex FX120 and F120a
L = (Line length) 120"
Zdriver = Driver 24" down from sealed end of cabinet
Sm = 50"^2
 
It seems if the fostex are enabl, it turns them into a completely different animal. I plan on enabling whatever driver I get. The f200a are expensive, but I am looking at a one driver solution for purity of sound. The costs of adding bass drivers plus the plate amps drives the price to almost as much.

It is hard to believe that the 120a can go as low in the bass as the Pioneer B20s with a different cabinet. Do you think the 200a would give too much bass in a BIB?
 
Apparently so. Still, Fostex drivers are considered to be very detailed. Give them a good recording, they sound good. But, as the old saying goes... Crap in, crap out.

Edit - still, if the primary purpose will be playback of decent quality recordings, then by all means go ahead.
 
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Crossblade

Member
2006-07-06 9:32 pm
To be forgiving ?
Shouldn't the Studio Monitor SHOW how a recording sounds, so you can make it sound GOOD?

Why did you choose F200? I guess it is a good driver, but ... are you sure you want IT exactly.

As an alternative, I would suggest Mark Audio Alpair 12.

Make sure to make good acoustic treatment with lots of bass traps (12 corners) and early reflections (2 sidewalls, ceiling and floor) panels.
 
It looks like parts-express has a good return policy. Madisound seems more picky about their return policy. I could buy the new Dayton PS22-8 or the Tang Band 1772 drivers to try out. It looks like if I buy the F200a, I am stuck with it. Would the 1772 or the 1808 work better in a BIB?
 

ChrisA

Member
2008-01-08 12:22 am
It is hard to know what I want without listening to the driver first. It seems the f200a gives the lowest frequency range down to 30hz. The Mark Audio driver seems interesting, but how low does it go and has it been enabled yet to see the outcome?

30Hz? I thought these speakers were to be used music that you record. If you have a piano. harp and violin you really do need 30Hz speakers. Yes pianos technically can produce 21Hz but but even a 9 foot concert grand has string long enough and what you hear are second and higher harmonics. Bottom line is there is not much in your sorce below about 40Hz.

HiFi stereo is different. You naver knowwhat CD you might buy and there might be an acoustic bass or drum on it. But if you know for sure you only can play three instruments you best option is to buy three speakers systems, one for each instrument.

general HiFi is hard but you should be able to take advantage of knowing you ONLY need to reproduce the sound of a violin. You are building a musical instrument speaker that only has to do one thing well
 

CLS

Member
2005-06-17 6:58 am
Taiwan
...

The only thing I am using my speakers for is to reproduce real piano. One of the pianos is an Bosendorfer piano that goes an extra octave below an 88 key piano.


Then I don't think a fullranger can do that.

:(

Unless the playback level is severely limited, and also the materials being played are also very limited. Piano works can be hugely dynamic and complex.

:(

How about this. Have a real musician play some Liszt or Rachmaninoff
on that super Bosendorfer in that room, and compare the sound to all speakers you've heard or you can audition. Pick the closest one.

I'd guess that'll be a very hard task.
 

ChrisA

Member
2008-01-08 12:22 am
Measure the sound of the low notes. Look at a spectrum. I bet the power is all in harmonics of those low notes, not in the fundamentals. Look at the high end too, not a lot of power there either. A real Bosendorfer can likely plat at a bit over 100 dB.

For piano you want to simulate what a real piano does. It fills the room with sound and then most of what you hear is reflected. pianos un-like stereo speakers send the sound in 360 degrees and up and down too The best piano speaker system for a virtual instrument is inside Yamaha's "N3 Avent Grand" it looks nothing at all like a stereo hifi.
Sound | Technology | AvantGrand | Yamaha

They use horizontal baffle, like a tabe top and then put a conventional piano lid over it

I've tried experimants with setting up stereo speaks with large amons of toe-out
There is much room for experiments

A lot depends on the source and how it was sampled, where the mics under the lib or 12 feet back? Some software pianos give you the option to place microphones. If so you want to position the speakers to the same place as the mics. Remeber this is NOT a stereo recording that has been mastered and panned into a stereo feil. It is "piano samples" an is much like you'd get from the preamps in a studio.
 
The software allows three mic positions- player, close, and room. EastWest/Quantum Leap Pianos - Sounds Online

I am also going to have orchestra samples and drum samples, but the main use will be for piano. Internet radio will be used also since I love live365.

With the room being so small. The computer desk with the MIDI controller will be against the wall in the center with the speakers are in each side in the corners. I really don't have any other options with the speakers.
 

CLS

Member
2005-06-17 6:58 am
Taiwan
Hmmm....

I agree that the acoustic power in harmonics would be quite large in proportion compared to fundamentals. However the bottom end gives the sense of the weight and scale of the real thing.

OK, I might be overly obsessed on that factor. Fullrangers have their strength in coherece and that plays a key role in realistic presentation, too. Actually, I myself do like 'smaller' piano works played by fullrangers. Just lovely.

Read again, I found the space is probably not sufficient for large speakers, and their bass might also overpower the room.

So, yeah, you're right. Fullrangers are not comprehensive, but probably quite good for your application. Sorry for the rudeness when jumping in. I'd love to see your progress and please update here. :)
 

Bob Brines

Member
2003-01-31 10:11 pm
....One of the pianos is an Bosendorfer piano that goes an extra octave below an 88 key piano.

Actually, the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand piano goes to 32foot C ~16Hz. But as stated above, a piano produces almost no fundimental in its lowest range, so a 30Hz speaker would produce all of the harmonics. But the reason for the increased range of the Bosendorfer is not to allow lower notes to be played, but to make the sound board larger and therfore make the piano sound louder.

BTW --The same is true with the string bass, which is why a speaker than only gets to 70Hz seems to have "good bass".

Bob
 
>>> I am still trying to debate between the OB baffle arrangement, the f200a, or keep the B20s in a BIB...

Very different speakers indeed! Eventually i will work my way to coax drivers. I just hope i can deal with the crossover issues after listening to fullrange all these years. I'd imagine the 200a could be made to sound best of the three options you list.