I have purchased the Elsinore waveguide, the most recent one for a centre speaker I am designing with a hypex amp. I would like to know a little more about the waveguide especially as it's not common in size, shape or width for that matter, not matching my 4 inch woofer diameter that it will crossover to. (They usually say the waveguide needs to match the diameter of the crossing woofer)
What is the lowest crossover point I can use which will still ensure controlled directivity to my matching Scaspeak 12W/8524G00?
And the waveguide is not like any other it's slightly deep but not wide. What are the tradeoffs of this kind of waveguide and what is the design principal behind it?
What is interesting is I know that the crossover recommendation for this waveguide is somewhat of a higher point of around 3000 hz but as the waveguide is larger in size I have a C-C distance issue so on paper at least I would like to go lower.
What is the lowest crossover point I can use which will still ensure controlled directivity to my matching Scaspeak 12W/8524G00?
And the waveguide is not like any other it's slightly deep but not wide. What are the tradeoffs of this kind of waveguide and what is the design principal behind it?
What is interesting is I know that the crossover recommendation for this waveguide is somewhat of a higher point of around 3000 hz but as the waveguide is larger in size I have a C-C distance issue so on paper at least I would like to go lower.
I've taken a look at the Scan-Speak woofer and in my opinion you'd want to try to work something out before 3kHz.
With the waveguide, taking a good set of polar measurements would help. As you have noticed it's difficult to guess whether this waveguide is intended to control directivity or other things. There is some data to go on.
With the waveguide, taking a good set of polar measurements would help. As you have noticed it's difficult to guess whether this waveguide is intended to control directivity or other things. There is some data to go on.
Well, I was hoping for slightly lower around 2500 ish. I have seen the tweeter used around that point in other designs so it should technically work okay if we are talking about tweeters cut off point that is.
Yes, I have noticed its not like a typical waveguide. Narrow width, doesn't match the woofer diameter I probably won't get a decent directivity match at the crossover region.
Never truly understood the trade offs and the goals of this design, obviously its intended for his DIY build more than anything. I just chose it for its simplicity for mounting it for D2608 tweeter but not sure if I made the right desicion.
Its for a centre speaker so perhaps the narrower directivity might end up being okay, but like you said I need polar plots.
You should read through the Elsinore design pages and it would become quite clear i believe. It's anyways a good read on design desicions and choices on a loudspeaker built with some 'non taditional' ideas.
Crossover docs, design philosopy, and the 'renegade tweeter theory' etc
https://www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_index.htm
I never built the Elsinores. And the best answer you would likely get if you contact Joe Rasmussen on here.
Or ask the q in the Elsinore thread to get a answer from the designer.
I can offer some insight into it i hope.
The waveguide was not in the original design, the original used a non flat baffle with a recessed tweeter with felt around it for time alignment (Just like the Dunlavy SC 4,5,6 etc).
The Elsinore is designed similarly to the old Dunlavys, to be a point source above xxx hz, which lead to certain design choices. And it uses a 2nd order (electrical) reverse polarity crossover, to obtain a ¨1st order acoustical rolloff from 3 k ish to 1,5k ish until the notch pulls it down into a null at the resonance @ 650 hz ish.
The waveguide is the correct depth to align the tweeter with the AC of the intended midbasses it is supposed to mate with, when the original center to center distance is correct. (Look at the webpage for measurements of the step resopnse and explanation).
It also helps to reduce distortion on the low end of the tweeters response with the added boost down low from the waveguide loading.
It gives a more consistent off axis response and less diffraction ripples then a recessed/felt covered option.
And yes it was obviously not designed to mate directivity with the mid drivers at xo point because of it's physical attributes.
https://www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_17.htmhttps://www.diyaudio.com/community/...t-peerless-hds-scan-speak-d2608-91300.264286/
If what you were looking for is a waveguide to match dispersion to the midbass for your own unique deisgn you might be better off with some of the other available options, and a little diy effort.
But your choice of a 4" mid means that none of the waveguides were really designed to mate with it to begin with. Also the depth for your 4" driver is not likely to exactly match for the impulse response with the Elsinore waveguide either.
The tweeter has successfully been mated with the old mcm waveguides- zaph audio etc.
The Visaton VG148R and the Monacor WG-300 and the Jantzen audio WG's are also options.
fx look at http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ScanSpeak-waveguides.htm for some tips to adapt one.
Augerpros 3D printing waveguides you can also look into that fits some of the other SS tweeters.
https://archiwum.allegro.pl/oferta/scan-speak-d2608-913000-waveguide-diy-i7877407336.html
Crossover docs, design philosopy, and the 'renegade tweeter theory' etc
https://www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_index.htm
I never built the Elsinores. And the best answer you would likely get if you contact Joe Rasmussen on here.
Or ask the q in the Elsinore thread to get a answer from the designer.
I can offer some insight into it i hope.
The waveguide was not in the original design, the original used a non flat baffle with a recessed tweeter with felt around it for time alignment (Just like the Dunlavy SC 4,5,6 etc).
The Elsinore is designed similarly to the old Dunlavys, to be a point source above xxx hz, which lead to certain design choices. And it uses a 2nd order (electrical) reverse polarity crossover, to obtain a ¨1st order acoustical rolloff from 3 k ish to 1,5k ish until the notch pulls it down into a null at the resonance @ 650 hz ish.
The waveguide is the correct depth to align the tweeter with the AC of the intended midbasses it is supposed to mate with, when the original center to center distance is correct. (Look at the webpage for measurements of the step resopnse and explanation).
It also helps to reduce distortion on the low end of the tweeters response with the added boost down low from the waveguide loading.
It gives a more consistent off axis response and less diffraction ripples then a recessed/felt covered option.
And yes it was obviously not designed to mate directivity with the mid drivers at xo point because of it's physical attributes.
https://www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_17.htmhttps://www.diyaudio.com/community/...t-peerless-hds-scan-speak-d2608-91300.264286/
If what you were looking for is a waveguide to match dispersion to the midbass for your own unique deisgn you might be better off with some of the other available options, and a little diy effort.
But your choice of a 4" mid means that none of the waveguides were really designed to mate with it to begin with. Also the depth for your 4" driver is not likely to exactly match for the impulse response with the Elsinore waveguide either.
The tweeter has successfully been mated with the old mcm waveguides- zaph audio etc.
The Visaton VG148R and the Monacor WG-300 and the Jantzen audio WG's are also options.
fx look at http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ScanSpeak-waveguides.htm for some tips to adapt one.
Augerpros 3D printing waveguides you can also look into that fits some of the other SS tweeters.
https://archiwum.allegro.pl/oferta/scan-speak-d2608-913000-waveguide-diy-i7877407336.html
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The measurements suggest there's more to it..
This conflicts with the midbasses being pushed away vertically to align their depth.
Really apprecaite your input, its always a learning experience with a interesing journey. To be quite honest I am limited due to emulating my Troel 3WC(Scanspeak) L/R as a centre speaker with DSP. Its a horizontaly mounted speaker and with so many centre speakers being measured horrendously I thought ill use the L/R as a centre. I could have gone with one of Sonus's(Augerpros) waveguides as I do have access to CNC, the issue was two fold, one I opted for simplicity in the mounting and second I was mistakenly under impression that if there wasn't a waveguide for that specific tweeter(which I asked in the thread) that the match was not sound pardon the pun. So hence why I opted for the Elsinore waveguide. The design might not be perfect if it was going to be an original design from the get go but if we take it that I am attempting to somewhat match my L/R then the trade off might be acceptable.
I have the WG-300 but I was perplexed on how to mount it and how the C-C distance was going to mitigated without using an MTM design, or was it just going to be a trade off. Can you confirm if the D2608 can be used directly onto the WG-300? When I say directly does it match the inlet of the throat? Is it just the mounting that has to be worked on...
Can you just explain why my choice of 4 inch doesn't really mate with any of the waveguides you mentioned or with the Elsinore? It will help wrap my head around mating drivers.
Of course originally, matching dispersion was the priority, but as its just a centre speaker I can live with it till I design something else.
Perhaps a 3D printed adapter may help and discussed in these threads:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...for-xt25-and-wg300-any-interest.278847/page-2
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...28f-in-a-waveguide.354778/page-4#post-6223526