New member here , I got a used Elekit TU-8500R with the lundahl transformers upgrade. I’m blown away by the sound quality .I did A/B comparisons & It beats out my Primaluna prologue classic in sound quality . Recently, I purchased a new TU-8500 preamp. Is it worth it to upgrade the stock caps/components ? Does it really make a big difference in the sound quality ? I’m no audiophile but my goal is to put together the highest fidelity system for the cheapest price possible .
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IME, some upgrades are worth the costs as compared to others. I am big on quality selector switches for example. In fact, I am about to change one out soon in a build of mine. When you are dealing with a small voltage and switching it, just about everything is important. RCA jacks are another component that I value, but that isn't so much about price as it is about build quality and solid connection. When it comes to resistors, I am not quite as picky, but a certain level of quality is expected. Capacitors, well, it is as much about choice of the component for the particular job intended as it is about the quality. Caps in the power supply would be different than those used in the audio circuit itself. Of course, the design engineer is aware of this and chooses for you.
If in fact you had a notable difference in the Lundahl transformer upgrade, that would indicate something to me.
Lastly, I will add that if the preamp/amp are of decent quality, then maybe a speaker upgrade is more desirable.
If in fact you had a notable difference in the Lundahl transformer upgrade, that would indicate something to me.
Lastly, I will add that if the preamp/amp are of decent quality, then maybe a speaker upgrade is more desirable.
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The lundahl transformers makes a notable huge difference in the sound accuracy on the TU-8200R power amp . Since this kit already comes with high quality components ,I’m not so sure if the caps upgrade on the TU-8500 preamp would make a huge difference that would justify the cost ?
If I had the de luxe version of an amplifier and built the standard, lower cost version of the pre-amp, the nagging suspicion that I'd created a bottleneck would get to me sooner or later. So in your place I'd spend the money now rather than upgrade later on.
The U.K. retailer suggests a number of options here: https://www.hificollective.co.uk/index.php/kits/elekit-audio-kits/tu-8500.html which will give you an idea. (I assume the parts mentioned are available over there.) Personally, I have found some of the Russian NOS caps sold on eBay excellent, and far better vfm, but some 'experts' disagree. If you haven't already, search Elekit on here.
The U.K. retailer suggests a number of options here: https://www.hificollective.co.uk/index.php/kits/elekit-audio-kits/tu-8500.html which will give you an idea. (I assume the parts mentioned are available over there.) Personally, I have found some of the Russian NOS caps sold on eBay excellent, and far better vfm, but some 'experts' disagree. If you haven't already, search Elekit on here.
Does the kitt come with one of those hifi? Plastic potts for volume.if so swap it out for switched attenuator.vast improvement.
The typical coupling caps found in Elekits are a prime candidate for replacement. I can recommend the Mundorf supreme (the standard version, (not the fancy metals and oil variety) if they will physicality fit. A bit more budget-friendly option, though still a good cap, are the Obligato films. Again, if they will fit. I've used the Obligatos in Fisher and Leak rebuilds and they sounded very nice. The only negative thing I can say about the Obligatos is physical. Their metal bodies are covered with a thin plastic film. I add a layer of thick shrink wrap over them prior to installation. See attached photo of Obligatos in a Fisher rebuild.
Can't say my experience with NOS russian PIO caps was good. Too much of a vintage fuzzy and unfocused sound for my tastes. Replacing the ruskies with Obligatos made the sound more clean and detailed and at the same time smooth and non-fatiguing.
As always, YMMV.
S.
Can't say my experience with NOS russian PIO caps was good. Too much of a vintage fuzzy and unfocused sound for my tastes. Replacing the ruskies with Obligatos made the sound more clean and detailed and at the same time smooth and non-fatiguing.
As always, YMMV.
S.
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And Here’s the finished unit . Sounds really nice & I’m quite happy with it !! The only complaint I have is , when music is playing & I switch to another selection, there is a little bleed through of music on all the other source selections . No big deal, Just turn off the other source .
I'm a big fan of the Mundorf EVO caps, either the plain alum or the alum/oil. Their higher end/cost caps don't sound as nice to me.
I went with the caps victor recommended along with the IC chip upgrade . This TU-8500 phono preamp actually sounds better than my Sutherland KC Vibe . Very impressive .
I Spent a good amount of time doing AB sound comparisons today, Swapping the CD player & turntable from the TU8500 preamp to direct feed the TU-8200R (with a Sutherland phono stage). The clarity & overall soundstage is much better when I bypassed the TU-8500 preamp . The 8500 adds more haze & graininess to the sound when using both the cd & turntable. I’ll stress that the TU8500 has not been burned in yet & only played for about 1 hour total. Will the sound clarity improve or did I make a mistake ?
The Mundorf plain Supreme is a very nice, balanced cap, IMO. I agree with Steve Morley, skip the fancier versions, they distort the tone. The Supreme has a nice warm vintage sound.
Put at least 50 hours running, with signal running through from a CD on repeat or a web radio or music service streaming, before you come to any preliminary conclusions. After 100 hours you'll know where the sound character is headed. I wouldn't exactly call the Mundorf Supremes vintage in tone. Once broken in they are smooth yet detailed. If there is hardness in the sound after 100 hours it won't be down to the Supremes.
I've heard the TU-8500 with 5965 tubes (as recommended by Victor) and it sounded quite decent. Though they require a bit more filament current, the power trannie seemed up to it. Best of all they are dirt cheap, about 5 bucks each! https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum-tube-5965-dual-triode It makes sense to get a hand full as shipping will likely cost as much as just buying a pair.
I also tried an ancient pair of Telefunken 12AU7s smooth plates I had kicking around. in the TU-8500. More of a soft-ish vintage tone but all of the midrange glow that people go on about. Not exactly my cup of tea but I can understand the attraction. Even well-used ones cost too much though.
Let your JJ tubes and Mundorf caps burn in a bit before changing anything. I think you'll find the sound will develop quite nicely.
How many hours are on the Lundahls in your power amp? I swapped out stock trannies for Lundahls in one of the push-pull Elekits. At first the sound of the Lundies was horrible. After 50 hours it was better and after 100 very nice and much better the stock trannies.
Good luck, have patience.
S.
I've heard the TU-8500 with 5965 tubes (as recommended by Victor) and it sounded quite decent. Though they require a bit more filament current, the power trannie seemed up to it. Best of all they are dirt cheap, about 5 bucks each! https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum-tube-5965-dual-triode It makes sense to get a hand full as shipping will likely cost as much as just buying a pair.
I also tried an ancient pair of Telefunken 12AU7s smooth plates I had kicking around. in the TU-8500. More of a soft-ish vintage tone but all of the midrange glow that people go on about. Not exactly my cup of tea but I can understand the attraction. Even well-used ones cost too much though.
Let your JJ tubes and Mundorf caps burn in a bit before changing anything. I think you'll find the sound will develop quite nicely.
How many hours are on the Lundahls in your power amp? I swapped out stock trannies for Lundahls in one of the push-pull Elekits. At first the sound of the Lundies was horrible. After 50 hours it was better and after 100 very nice and much better the stock trannies.
Good luck, have patience.
S.
Thanks Steve , your 1st hand experience is exactly what I was hoping for ! I will run the 8500 non-stop this week with the power amp off. Hopefully the sound gets more detailed & not as muddy ! I’ve been running the lundahls on the Tu-8200 for about 20 hours, I noticed a huge improvement over the stock output transformers. Much more detail & dynamics . It sounds so good , that I think this is my forever amp !
Transformers are very complex components with lots of contradictory physical handicaps present, design is always a compromise, which is decided by builder, so they"all sound different".
Always there is room for improvement, so you will find (and hear) real differences.
"Mechanical" components (connectors, switches, pots, etc.) can also be built poorly, normal or better.
No sound difference by themselves, but durability, smoothness of operation, etc. can be drastic.
It again pays to invest more.
Now on passives: caps or resistors, if competent, and all modern ones are, think commercial parts sourced from the usual large suppliers, no sound difference, no justification to spend lots more for smoke and mirrors.
Always there is room for improvement, so you will find (and hear) real differences.
"Mechanical" components (connectors, switches, pots, etc.) can also be built poorly, normal or better.
No sound difference by themselves, but durability, smoothness of operation, etc. can be drastic.
It again pays to invest more.
Now on passives: caps or resistors, if competent, and all modern ones are, think commercial parts sourced from the usual large suppliers, no sound difference, no justification to spend lots more for smoke and mirrors.
From the picture theres not much spare room under the chassis. Looking at the power supply a nice jucey choke and better power supply caps would improve the sound in my experience or maybe theres a choke hidden from view ?
Although I'm fond of big juicy chokes, I don't think there would be that much to gain in adding one to the TU-8200. If memory serves, the TU-8200, like most Elekit power amps, uses a capacitance multiplier for the B+ supply. There also isn't a lot of real estate available for a choke. Elekits usually come with decent power supply caps so I don't think there would be much to be gained in swapping them out.
Spin, if you want to try some different output tubes (a very similar 6L6 equivalent), I've had good service from this seller on eBay: https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_dkr...name=sovietelectronicparts&_oac=1&_nkw=6p3s-e
No assocation etc.
Spin, if you want to try some different output tubes (a very similar 6L6 equivalent), I've had good service from this seller on eBay: https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_dkr...name=sovietelectronicparts&_oac=1&_nkw=6p3s-e
No assocation etc.
Update ; after about 40-50 hours burn-in, I have noticed the Tu-8500 has dramatically improved. The clarity & dynamics is now where I think it should be & it compliments the 8200R power amp perfectly ! The built-in phono stage is ok but nothing to write home about. I recommend a separate phono stage. I also switched out the stock JJ tubes with NOS GE 5965 tubes as recommended by Steve.