Hello everyone,
this is a rather simple issue- I am trying to find out some specific measurements for these EV CD mantaray-style horns.
Could anyone owning or having access to one of these accurately measure the width and height of the slim vertical mouth-entry slit as seen from the front?
I know both are different.
Thanks so much! 🙂
this is a rather simple issue- I am trying to find out some specific measurements for these EV CD mantaray-style horns.
Could anyone owning or having access to one of these accurately measure the width and height of the slim vertical mouth-entry slit as seen from the front?
I know both are different.
Thanks so much! 🙂
You can get the data sheet online. There dimension on it. Or are you looking for more specific numbers?
well yeah, I am looking for rather specific numbers like I stated above. the datasheet is meant for installers and has mostly unclear dimensions except for the numbers that matter when installing these units. I can't believe there is no actual owner of these horns on here- It'd be greatly appreciated, thanks so much!
The few remaining horns of this type are more likely to be found hanging in a church or arena than in a living room, and if they are in someone's living room, they probably went through the DIY phase decades ago and are not looking at these pages with any regularity, if at all.
These horns were not popular with DIY folks back in the 1980s when they came out, the only ones I sold back then were the smaller format units.
By the time the HR9040 came out, cone midrange had made the large format horns unpopular other than for large scale sound reinforcement in reverberant environments.
Although the EV horns have smoother transitions than the Manta Ray, they still have the same problems, and diffraction horns are generally not high on the approval scale for current "Hi Fi" use.
The diffraction slot is around an inch wide on both horns, the vertical arc measurement is fairly accurate and can be scaled from the drawings.
If you are planning to duplicate the horns, the dimensions you ask for are just a start, there are nifty little vanes in the transition area from round throat to the rectangular radial diffraction slot.
What specific purpose do you need the slot dimensions for?
Art
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Hi Art, your in-depth comment is much appreciated! Thanks a lot. I understand. I've seen "some" pictures of these in home environments and figured "someone" might be using these still. I understand that it is rather uncommon in "near field" applications and what you say makes sense.
I asked about the dimensions of the slit to gain better understanding of the proportions of this family of horns. I was not too sure if the drawings were true to scale or not. Thanks for clearing this up. The reason I am interested in these is that I need a pair of flares that should not only load from 500Hz up, but also be directive right from 500Hz.
It is not meant for domestic use, it is rather going to be an experimental array that should be as directive as possible. The drivers are DH1A. Below those midbass horns play up until 500 and not higher.
I am trying to DIY the flares. I am not US-based and importing something like those EV horns or of course JBL 2360 / 2365 would be pointless when considering the shipping cost. They rarely pop up overseas and if they do, people also ask ridiculous prices.
So I was looking into ways of building flares and trying to find other projects, which was not easy, since, like you pointed out, not many people would be too interested to DIY such a type of horn.
I figured the rather geometric shape of the mantaray-like HPXXXX would be a design that I could actually manufacture.
Do you have any suggestions? I am looking for a not too wide dispersion, something along the lines of 60° horizontal and 40° vertical.
Thanks so much!
I asked about the dimensions of the slit to gain better understanding of the proportions of this family of horns. I was not too sure if the drawings were true to scale or not. Thanks for clearing this up. The reason I am interested in these is that I need a pair of flares that should not only load from 500Hz up, but also be directive right from 500Hz.
It is not meant for domestic use, it is rather going to be an experimental array that should be as directive as possible. The drivers are DH1A. Below those midbass horns play up until 500 and not higher.
I am trying to DIY the flares. I am not US-based and importing something like those EV horns or of course JBL 2360 / 2365 would be pointless when considering the shipping cost. They rarely pop up overseas and if they do, people also ask ridiculous prices.
So I was looking into ways of building flares and trying to find other projects, which was not easy, since, like you pointed out, not many people would be too interested to DIY such a type of horn.
I figured the rather geometric shape of the mantaray-like HPXXXX would be a design that I could actually manufacture.
Do you have any suggestions? I am looking for a not too wide dispersion, something along the lines of 60° horizontal and 40° vertical.
Thanks so much!
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Great drivers, I evaluated several lighter "modern" drivers and none were better.
Sounds like you already have midbass horns, but my suggestion using the DH1 would be this:
Remove the snout adapter, now the driver has a 1.4" exit (same as the DH1AMT drivers I use in my PA).
Heat up the snout adapter bolts with a torch to loosen the Locktite- I broke off one of the bolts before I figured that out 😱.
Reducing from 2" to 1.4" exit allows for wider HF dispersion, and a close physical location to the midbass in a Synergy style horn, they can be located within 1/4 wavelength, allowing a single point source from around 100 Hz to 16 kHz, and will have pattern control to around 400 Hz, or lower depending on the mouth size chosen.
With midbass drivers of your choice you can make a conical Synergy type horn of your desired 60° x 40° dispersion. The wall angle determines the dispersion pattern, if you don't mind a long horn, you can make the dispersion pattern as narrow as desired, the DSL SH-25 is 25°x 25°.
You may be able to re-use your present mid bass drivers, the acoustical crossover will come in between around 700-1000 Hz depending on mid cone driver choice.
Raising the DH1 crossover point from 500 Hz cleans up its sound, and increases output potential, a ratio of one DH1 to four 8" or two 10" would be about right.
The conical Synergy type horn is much easier to build, sounds better than diffraction horns, and has as good dispersion as the HP6040, and including the mid bass in the same cabinet it will be approximately the same size as the EV mid/hi.
You will save a lot of space and weight compared to separate mid-bass/HF horns, and you could sell off or re-use the wood from your present mid-bass.
Art
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Oh wow Art, people like you make this place special, thanks again.
You know, the thing is that I at one point had to stop changing plans and concepts, and just go with one solution and commit to it. Since I did just learn about synergy horns a short while ago, I did not want to go that route for this particular project. However, I really like the concept and I am looking forward to tinkering with it in the future.
The DH1A modification sounds really interesting and makes sense. love it!
You are right, the midbass horns already exist or rather are in the making. I am going a rather "classic" route with separate horn flares for each way.
do you have another horn concept for the DH1A in mind that doesn't beam a lot and is DIY-friendly?
kind regards
You know, the thing is that I at one point had to stop changing plans and concepts, and just go with one solution and commit to it. Since I did just learn about synergy horns a short while ago, I did not want to go that route for this particular project. However, I really like the concept and I am looking forward to tinkering with it in the future.
The DH1A modification sounds really interesting and makes sense. love it!
You are right, the midbass horns already exist or rather are in the making. I am going a rather "classic" route with separate horn flares for each way.
do you have another horn concept for the DH1A in mind that doesn't beam a lot and is DIY-friendly?
kind regards
Meko,
Not too late to change plans, but it does kind of "pinch"😉.
My current PA involved trashing the diffraction horns I previously had built which were similar in concept to the EV HP horns.
I had become dissatisfied with the vertical interaction (comb filter cancellation) between the horns, and an off axis "suckout" in the crossover region caused by the center to center distance between the HF and mid cones.
I have made many conical HF horns, they are fairly easy to make, have defined pattern control, and very little diffraction.
Fairing the throat like Hughe's Quadratic throat does make a difference, but requires a lot of hand filing.
Throat driven conical horns don't load all that well down to 500 Hz though, which is why I recommend the Synergy concept.
From an assembly and time standpoint, you can make a Synergy almost as fast as a conical HF horn only.
My current PA uses Paraline conical horns, but they are far more complicated to build, and not as smooth as a standard conical horn.
Better for line array use though, and they do load down well below 500 Hz with the DH1AMT. The chart is of the HF driver only, with the 8" speakers the cabinet crosses over to the lows at 100Hz.
Using the same components in the same (exterior) box, the difference between the old design and the Paraline was rather amazing, for the first time I could get the PA to sound as good as headphones, consistent over the 90 degree coverage pattern.
I wish they were lighter, but when I can't lift 50 pounds over my head it will probably be time to retire 🙂.
How many DH1 do you have?
Any pictures of the rest of your PA?
Art
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haha, definitely 🙂
thank you Art, once more, for your insight and you sharing your experiences. It is quite inspiring. Your array uses alpha8s? nice! You see, I agree that one should better build the best system no matter what, but I also lack way too much experience to do that just now. I am still very much a beginner when it comes to horn flare design but it interests me so much I will learn and keep on learning. I just have to do it at my pace, which will possibly result in products that are sub-optimal or, if things go really bad, dead ends. but that's how you learn I guess.
I just think I need to get into horns in gerneral before I can move towards more specialized horn concepts like synergy/unity etc.
I also have my doubts about the diffraction type horns, especially since I want to use the DH1A down to pretty low frequencies, plus they are not the easiest to build or simulate.
I keep thinking about going a rather "hifi" route with something like a square Le Cléac'h horn, symmetric in horizontal and vertical pattern control. But I don't have too much confidence in me cooking up the DH1A compression driver parameters for hornresp...
did not take pictures yet, but will 😉
Yes, my line array uses 28 Alpha 8" and 10 DH1AMT.
Having built various horn and front loaded speakers for nearly four decades, I have definitely made plenty of mistakes, when I see others making the same ones decades later try to save them the trouble.
Of course, there is nothing like building 8, 16, 32 or 64 copies of a cabinet and finding it is a flawed design to make one avoid the same problems in the future, though one finds there are always other problems to be avoided 😉.
Interestingly, I designed and built cabinets functionally similar in design to the Synergy series back in 1992, though it used nested conical horns within horns to achieve a single point source. The nested Maltese horn design resulted in a number of problems, nearly all were addressed in the Synergy.
Often when I look at the Synergy designs I think "why didn't I think of that back then", but one can't change the past, only the future.
The Synergy/Unity are specialized in that they use multiple drivers feeding a single horn, but the conical horn expansion is by far the easiest to build, and provides uniform (constant) directivity.
No exponential or "Le Cléac'h" type horn provides constant directivity, and diffraction horns sound quality is not as good as conical.
What mid and bass drivers are you using?
Art
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