echo, reverb using bucket brigade delay lines from panasonic

[kASD]

hey everyone,

Ever worked with or used panasonic's bucketbrigade delay lines IC's for producing the effects such as stereo imaging , reverb, echo, chorus etc.

Attached are some of the schematics of using these IC's.

please comment if any body knows about them.


best regards,
Kanwar

 

[kASD]

another one..........

 

[Giaime]

If only you could find the chips. They've been discontinued long ago, and the guitar effects guys are desperately searching for last ones, paying even hunderd of bucks on ebay auctions.

If you could find some, you'll be rich...

Btw their sound is not good for hi-fi audio, they are somewhat slow, resulting in a noticeable high-frequency loss. Because of their warm sound, they're enjoyedc very much from guitar players... 😀

 

[kASD]

I dont think that these are obsolete, because they are available here in INDIA at very cheap prices.
Any other substitute for these IC's for generating effects?

regards,
Kanwar

 

[anatech]

Remember the SAD1024? Those were hard to get but I heard they may be available again somewhere.

-Chris

 

[Giaime]

Maybe there in India there's someone that still make them... or there is a huge stock still avaible... If you make ebay auctions you'll be rich 😀

Btw Hello Chris! It has been some time I didn't see you...

 

[kASD]

If all these chips are obsolete , then is there any alternative to produce sound effects with other methods. Any other chip which is not obsoleted yet?

 

[anatech]

Hi Giaime,
I'm around a lot! I may not post if I don't have anything to add.

Workhorse,
Don't know about the chips but you can always use a real reverb spring. No adjustment of time delay that I know of ....

-Chris

 

[Giaime]

Hi Chris! No I meant I hasn't been around a lot... 😀

About the chips, nothing that I know can replace them. Since digital DSP all-in-one chips are so cheap (look at those guitar signal processor for 30$) there is simply no need for the analog real warm vintage (so many buzzwords!) bucket brigade delay chip...

 

[anatech]

Hi Giaime,
Okay, then welcome back! I though I saw some posts from you though.

Hey, I think I found your fuse. Shipping is a killer from here.

-Chris

 

[StevenOH]

Holtek makes one chip for the task.
The chip is HT8970:
http://www.holtek.com/english/docum/consumer/8970.htm
http://www.holtek.com.tw/AspNetForums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=13

 

[kASD]

Thanks, Steven for the information you provided, it will definately provide us an alternative way.🙂

 

[boholm]

Philips once had a chip called TDA1022 - a bucket brigade delay line. I considered using it for a hifi ambience setup, but I discovered, that there are limitations in the upper frequency. The upper limit is a function of the wanted delay, which is determined by the clock frequency. So I abandoned the idea.

Instead I found a delay line in some old Audio Amateur magazines.

But all this was 20 years ago . . .

 

[Giaime]

I wonder if an old tape deck can be modded to be used as a true tape delay... 😀

 

[anatech]

Oh man, yes but it's ugly. I've worked on old loop machines. The tape is in a long loop. There are multiple playback heads spaced out. Cool machine but maintenace heavy. I think some model could vary the tape speed as well.

I've heard of it being done on a reel to reel at 15 or 30 ips. Again a long loop spaced out from the machine by a pulley for longer delay times.

This is the best sounding way. Provided of course the equipment is in good shape and calibrated to your tape.

-Chris

 

[wimms]

Why not use delta-sigma ADC and FIFO memory?

 

[kASD]

Why not use delta-sigma ADC and FIFO memory?

Using a delta-sigma ADC with FIFO memory would raise the cost and complexiteis for the purpose of just providing a delay for voice echo effects.

 

[barri]

can i use other ic like 4558

 

[wahab]

Remember the SAD1024? Those were hard to get but I heard they may be available again somewhere.

-Chris

Hi Chris, experience talks !!
I still have a pair of thoses...
If my (BBD?) memory is good, there was also a cut down version SAD5XX.
Very good chip, but quite expensive at the time.

As for such a build, it s somewhat more expensive that buying and
old digital verb dating from the 80s/90s.
An Alesis Midiverb 1, 2 or 3 should cost less and provide hifi sound.
Heck, i even managed to find a Yamaha DSP100 for about 10 euros...

 

[geraldfryjr]

I still have a bunch of SAD1024's that I was going to build A multi tap reverb with.

I also had I profesional delay unit that used them as well.
I don't remember the brand name as I sold it to a local pawn shop because one channel didn't work and I needed some quick cash.
The quality wasn't worth the effort to repair it.

It did have quite a long delay,2 seconds per channel I think.

The balanced inputs and outputs where barrier strip terminals instead of the normal XLR type connector. jer