I have been messing around with DIY audio for about 4 years now building home theater stuff and so forth. Built some decent stuff but never really did anything from scratch. I am now heading to college in the fall and leaving my home theater at home and going to be making some good speakers for my dorm.
Goals:
Crisp highs but not harsh
Smooth lows but not boomy as to shake the room being it is a dorm.
Basically a monitor but more bass. I enjoy deep rich lows.
More SQ than SPL
Something in a very manageable bookshelf speakers size.
I will probably run off an older Sansui amp I have. Also might experiment with Tubes.
Question:
What do you recommend for speaker set up? 2way or 3way? I don't want to run a separate sub but I want to get good lows.
What do you recommend for speakers choice?
Also crossover stuff I have read a lot about all the different thing and have used like WinISD what kind of crossover would work the best for a bookshelf? Or maybe point me in the direction of some good reading about it.
Initial choices:
Tweeter:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=279-140&scqty=2
Mid:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-434&scqty=2
Woofer:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-306&scqty=2
Or do you think 3 way would be over kill and I could get what I want out of a 2 way? I don't have a problem with making a sealed section for a mid then making the woofer in its on section. Just want to see what some of you guys think. Thanks for reading.
Goals:
Crisp highs but not harsh
Smooth lows but not boomy as to shake the room being it is a dorm.
Basically a monitor but more bass. I enjoy deep rich lows.
More SQ than SPL
Something in a very manageable bookshelf speakers size.
I will probably run off an older Sansui amp I have. Also might experiment with Tubes.
Question:
What do you recommend for speaker set up? 2way or 3way? I don't want to run a separate sub but I want to get good lows.
What do you recommend for speakers choice?
Also crossover stuff I have read a lot about all the different thing and have used like WinISD what kind of crossover would work the best for a bookshelf? Or maybe point me in the direction of some good reading about it.
Initial choices:
Tweeter:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=279-140&scqty=2
Mid:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-434&scqty=2
Woofer:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-306&scqty=2
Or do you think 3 way would be over kill and I could get what I want out of a 2 way? I don't have a problem with making a sealed section for a mid then making the woofer in its on section. Just want to see what some of you guys think. Thanks for reading.
I lived in a dorm room or dorm sized apartment room for 5 years and had a number of different systems. Here are my recommendations based on that experience.
Get some good headphones for the majority of your listening. They will also serve as a reference for your speaker projects. Open style headphones can be more comfortable, but at some point you will likely want to drown out external noise and thus should consider closed style headphones as well.
For your speakers, go with small satellite speakers and one or two small subwoofers rather than larger 3 ways. The flexibility of physically positioning the smaller speakers will trump any benefits of a 3 way system for a dorm application unless you have VERY cooperating roommates.
Any 2 way that can go low enough to not need a subwoofer will also be too large to optimally place in a typical dorm environment.
The separate, smaller subwoofer(s) will allow you to position them where they sound best in the room, with the least amount of resonance.
You will have substantial amounts of bass gain due to the small dimensions and solid walls of a dorm room. In my experience (preferring low frequency and fast transient response), sealed subwoofers or lower than "optimal" tuned port subwoofers sound best in these environments.
The worst sounding speaker in dorm rooms are unfortunately the most common. These are the high Qts, high frequency (50Hz+) tuned mass market subwoofers and 2-ways that are sold at every electronics store in sight. You will understand what I mean when your neighbor turns up his new computer subwoofer with a 70Hz+ tuned frequency and it resonates with the long dimension of his room to create a constant droning sound that permeates the building. This is why I advise the headphones, though you will still feel the vibrations.
Regards,
David
Get some good headphones for the majority of your listening. They will also serve as a reference for your speaker projects. Open style headphones can be more comfortable, but at some point you will likely want to drown out external noise and thus should consider closed style headphones as well.
For your speakers, go with small satellite speakers and one or two small subwoofers rather than larger 3 ways. The flexibility of physically positioning the smaller speakers will trump any benefits of a 3 way system for a dorm application unless you have VERY cooperating roommates.
Any 2 way that can go low enough to not need a subwoofer will also be too large to optimally place in a typical dorm environment.
The separate, smaller subwoofer(s) will allow you to position them where they sound best in the room, with the least amount of resonance.
You will have substantial amounts of bass gain due to the small dimensions and solid walls of a dorm room. In my experience (preferring low frequency and fast transient response), sealed subwoofers or lower than "optimal" tuned port subwoofers sound best in these environments.
The worst sounding speaker in dorm rooms are unfortunately the most common. These are the high Qts, high frequency (50Hz+) tuned mass market subwoofers and 2-ways that are sold at every electronics store in sight. You will understand what I mean when your neighbor turns up his new computer subwoofer with a 70Hz+ tuned frequency and it resonates with the long dimension of his room to create a constant droning sound that permeates the building. This is why I advise the headphones, though you will still feel the vibrations.
Regards,
David
If you decide to heed the above advice, here are some suggestions for good satellite speakers.
If you will be doing most of your listening from a computer chair (as I did). Then you are most concerned with on-axis performance and can get by with a small, inexpensive, and easy to build full-range project. Here is the perfect speaker for that situation.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
If you prefer to listen in multiple places in the room, rather than primarily your computer chair, you need a tweeter for good off axis high frequency response. Here is a good, inexpensive 2-way project.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html
These projects are well designed and have been measured and verified to give good results. They make a great entry point into speaker building and will provide a reference for future designs if you so desire.
If you prefer to stick with a wide bandwidth 2-way, and accept that they may not sound the best if you can't place them exactly where they need to be placed, then there are several projects to consider as well, depending on your budget.
Regards,
David
If you will be doing most of your listening from a computer chair (as I did). Then you are most concerned with on-axis performance and can get by with a small, inexpensive, and easy to build full-range project. Here is the perfect speaker for that situation.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
If you prefer to listen in multiple places in the room, rather than primarily your computer chair, you need a tweeter for good off axis high frequency response. Here is a good, inexpensive 2-way project.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html
These projects are well designed and have been measured and verified to give good results. They make a great entry point into speaker building and will provide a reference for future designs if you so desire.
If you prefer to stick with a wide bandwidth 2-way, and accept that they may not sound the best if you can't place them exactly where they need to be placed, then there are several projects to consider as well, depending on your budget.
Regards,
David
Right now I already have the headphones cover. I have been using for about a year now some Sennheiser HD280's and they really suit my needs. As for budget I am willing to spend somewhere in the $200 range. That is if I use a sub. With a sub comes buying a separate amp. Without sub $100 for speakers and then whatever else for crossover parts and building materials. I would really like to stay away from like a 2.1 system because I think it will be easier to manage 2 bigger speakers then 2 small and 1 bigger sub.
I have read that project before just something iffy about a single speakers doing all the work.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
I have read that project before just something iffy about a single speakers doing all the work.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
David gave you really good advice. But if you prefer the simplicity of wide bandwidth 2-ways with your budget, I believe the Modula MT at HT guide or my RS180/27TDFC design is the best option you can find. These two designs use exactly the same drivers. My design's vented cabinet has a bit smaller foot print (8.5" versus 10"). My crossover is more economical. Either way, you'll have very nice sounding 2-way speakers on a budget.
Read my RS180/27TDFC 2-way design page. A good amount of information about these designs is there.
http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/RS180_2way/RS180_2way.htm
-jAy
Read my RS180/27TDFC 2-way design page. A good amount of information about these designs is there.
http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/RS180_2way/RS180_2way.htm
-jAy
Jay, you read my mind, I was drafting a reply to suggest the exact same build. The RS180 is on sale right now at Parts Express, so I'm tempted to pick up a pair to try this design for myself.
This project will run a little higher than your implied budget. Figure on spending about $250 for all parts (including speakers and crossover); then add in your enclosure costs.
Good luck with the project, and let us know what you decide!
-David M
This project will run a little higher than your implied budget. Figure on spending about $250 for all parts (including speakers and crossover); then add in your enclosure costs.
Good luck with the project, and let us know what you decide!
-David M
Well, as someone whose first and only dormroom system consisted of a pair of Mirage bipole towers and a 15" sealed subwoofer (not to mention a pair of KEF Q15's on my desk for nearfield use - luckily my roommate was half-insane and half indulgent) perhaps I'm not the best person to give advice. Nonetheless, if I were going to college today I'd do a sat-sub system something like the following:
Sats:
From my perspective, the ideal driver for the sats would be the old Vifa 10BGS (MG10MD in international nomenclature - 10BGS was the German name). It had pretty remarkable HF extension, went reasonably low, and suffered less power compression than most 3" widebanders. A long time hit with German DIYers for good reason. However, neither Madisound nor SpeakerCity seem to have them in stock. Two other great 3" - and super cheap - fullrange choices, the Aura NS3 and the new 3" Peerless wideband driver that seems to have gotten good reviews (I've not heard it) and is also ultra cheap, seem to also be out of stock. That leaves the Vifa TG9. Outstanding motor, limited low end but very precise mids and great treble for a widebander. The HiVi driver in the Zaph design above is cheaper, but I don't like it that much. It gets easily congested as soon as you turn up the wick a bit, well before the NS3 or TG9 would. (I've not heard the Peerless, so I can't comment on it in this regard.)
Sub
This one's really a no-brainer: Peerless SLS8. There are better woofers. There are cheaper woofers. IMO, there are none that are both. A real sweet spot here, in terms of extension, size requirements, price, and bass quality. Buy two of them, or even three. Put one on your desk (as high as you can) and stick one in the corner under your bed.
If you wanted to, you could even do a 2-way with the SLS8 and the TG9, instead of separating them. Both are smooth enough that a passive is possible even for someone with minimal experience, though the parts are large and I think a cheap receiver (to take a digital in from the MacBook I assume you're buying, as I assume your Sansui amp doesn't have a digital input and I've yet to hear a laptop with an acceptable analog audio out) with a plate amp for the sub may be cheaper.
IMO, a system designed along those lines will work way better than a 7" 2-way of equivalent cost. Maybe you'll lose some extreme HF, but you'll gain midrange coherence (something that no 7" 2-way has, unless it uses a coincident/concentric or waveguide-loaded tweeter) and much more tuneful bass.
Sats:
From my perspective, the ideal driver for the sats would be the old Vifa 10BGS (MG10MD in international nomenclature - 10BGS was the German name). It had pretty remarkable HF extension, went reasonably low, and suffered less power compression than most 3" widebanders. A long time hit with German DIYers for good reason. However, neither Madisound nor SpeakerCity seem to have them in stock. Two other great 3" - and super cheap - fullrange choices, the Aura NS3 and the new 3" Peerless wideband driver that seems to have gotten good reviews (I've not heard it) and is also ultra cheap, seem to also be out of stock. That leaves the Vifa TG9. Outstanding motor, limited low end but very precise mids and great treble for a widebander. The HiVi driver in the Zaph design above is cheaper, but I don't like it that much. It gets easily congested as soon as you turn up the wick a bit, well before the NS3 or TG9 would. (I've not heard the Peerless, so I can't comment on it in this regard.)
Sub
This one's really a no-brainer: Peerless SLS8. There are better woofers. There are cheaper woofers. IMO, there are none that are both. A real sweet spot here, in terms of extension, size requirements, price, and bass quality. Buy two of them, or even three. Put one on your desk (as high as you can) and stick one in the corner under your bed.
If you wanted to, you could even do a 2-way with the SLS8 and the TG9, instead of separating them. Both are smooth enough that a passive is possible even for someone with minimal experience, though the parts are large and I think a cheap receiver (to take a digital in from the MacBook I assume you're buying, as I assume your Sansui amp doesn't have a digital input and I've yet to hear a laptop with an acceptable analog audio out) with a plate amp for the sub may be cheaper.
IMO, a system designed along those lines will work way better than a 7" 2-way of equivalent cost. Maybe you'll lose some extreme HF, but you'll gain midrange coherence (something that no 7" 2-way has, unless it uses a coincident/concentric or waveguide-loaded tweeter) and much more tuneful bass.
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