Do I build Proac Response 2.5 Clones?

[iep]

After an explosion of interest around the Proac 2.5 Clone about 15 yeas back, things quietened down. A huge amount of really good engineering was published (thanks to Troels et al) and then the there followed and long period of tweaking and comparisons against the original. I've read most of it and the Clones basically still look very solid.

I've wanted to build a set for years but have never had the time/funds/justification. I now have about 50% of the parts needed left over from another project so wondered if I should give it a go. Orrrrr, with so much time having passed, is there newer/better option for a proven self build project?

Bit of background, I've been building speakers for years but have tended to work with older/vintage/cheaper drive units to keep cost down but also to see what is possible. I currently have a set of Kef B200 based units with passive radiator and scanspeak 2905/95000 tweeter.

These are very good with tons of that 70's style bass (loads of punch) and decent treble but the vocals are a bit recessed and I've never really got them to soundstage the way,say, a set of EPOS ES11s do.

So, in short, for the price of the woofers (I have pretty much everything else I need) and some time in the workshop, I could build the Proacs. Are they still considered worthy of a punt?

There's always the option of just buying some speakers from a shop, but I seem addicted to the home build path...... Plus, I still believe, pound for pound, buying something of similar quality to a good build project is difficult (even second hand).

Any thoughts?

Cheers.

 

[celef]

I remember the hype around the 2.5 clones and i also remember all the tweaks. If you want a replika of the original r2.5 stay away from all Troel gravesen tweaks and go for the ”original” clone crossover.

 

[iep]

Thanks, yes, i'd spotted that. To complicate things slightly though, I'll be using my existing 2905/9500 tweeters so I'll definitely not be getting the full R2.5 experience.

That said, I really like the 2905 tweeter so I'm fairly sure it will not be the weak link in any build. Also, I have run a couple of sims on the various xover options and reckon I can reinstate the 2kHz 'bump' with the 2905 easily enough if I want something closer to the original.

I guess the real question remains whether, post hype, people are still enjoying their builds or if everyone just moved on...

Or, given I have pair of 2905 tweeters, a pile of timber and box of caps/inductors whether there is another floor standing 2 way speaker that people would recommend?

Cheers.

 

[Lewart]

Hi. Same as you been building for awhile and build most of the clone versions that piped up over the years Needless to say I don’t have it anymore none of them were keepers. There was always something missing and the “magic”that the driver is capable of wasn’t there. Now Göran has an updated version of it . It’s for 8545-01 drivers but crossover is much simpler then most and looks like very good engineering. Unfortunately I have sold my 2905s years ago in favor of Illuminator but will get it again and try the Audioexite design.check it out and good luck.

 

[Lewart]

Hi. Same as you been building for awhile and build most of the clone versions that piped up over the years Needless to say I don’t have it anymore none of them were keepers. There was always something missing and the “magic”that the driver is capable of wasn’t there. Now Göran has an updated version of it . It’s for 8545-01 drivers but crossover is much simpler then most and looks like very good engineering. Unfortunately I have sold my 2905s years ago in favor of Illuminator but will get it again and try the Audioexite design.check it out and good luck.

 

[ontariomaximus]

Hi. Same as you been building for awhile and build most of the clone versions that piped up over the years Needless to say I don’t have it anymore none of them were keepers. There was always something missing and the “magic”that the driver is capable of wasn’t there. Now Göran has an updated version of it . It’s for 8545-01 drivers but crossover is much simpler then most and looks like very good engineering. Unfortunately I have sold my 2905s years ago in favor of Illuminator but will get it again and try the Audioexite design.check it out and good luck.

Would that be the Classic Two -M5?

 

[iep]

I think you're referring to this one:

www.audioexcite.com >> Classic Two – M5

Looks very nice and the plots are quite compelling. The xover is a bit of an education as I'd immediately have assumed it to be a 2nd order roll off.

Can it really produce similar bass to the R2.5 floorstander?

Cheers,

 

[jtgofish]

There are much better alternatives now.The 2.5s had a recessed sounding midrange/lacked presence.Bass was also pretty ponderous.

 

[iep]

Thanks, can you suggest any specifically?

I'm definitely drawn to the Classic Two. Nice form factor and, conveniently, uses the tweeter that I already have....

Only concern is that I lose too much of the bass punch that my current Kef's produce (based around the Kef Calinda design).

Cheers,

Ivan

 

[celef]

Thanks, yes, i'd spotted that. To complicate things slightly though, I'll be using my existing 2905/9500 tweeters so I'll definitely not be getting the full R2.5 experience.

That said, I really like the 2905 tweeter so I'm fairly sure it will not be the weak link in any build. Also, I have run a couple of sims on the various xover options and reckon I can reinstate the 2kHz 'bump' with the 2905 easily enough if I want something closer to the original.

I guess the real question remains whether, post hype, people are still enjoying their builds or if everyone just moved on...

Or, given I have pair of 2905 tweeters, a pile of timber and box of caps/inductors whether there is another floor standing 2 way speaker that people would recommend?

Cheers.

if you are using a larger tweeter i think you will alter the power response of the loudspeaker, you will definitely have a different sounding pair of speakers. the 2khz peak comes from the woofer cone i think. i still have a pair but not in use, the bass overpowered my room and worked best when plugged the ports

 

[Lewart]

I’m not sure what other new options there are. As I ve build most of them The M5 looks really good. How it will sound remains to be seen. But I will definitely try it after my current project is completed. Will post my findings

 

[Lewart]

Yes I was referring to M5. I’m not sure what other alternatives there available as I ve build most of them. IMHO the m5 looks really good and I will build it as soon as my current project is completed. If someone build it before I do pls post impressions.

 

[iep]

Did a wee bit of simulation using WinISD to compare the Proac R2.5 Clone vs the M5. Results are a bit puzzling (to me at least).

Red = M5
Green = R2.5 with 38Hz tuning in 34L box (as per spec I believe)
Blue = Must messing with tuning on the R2.5 to see what happens if tuning dropped to 30Hz

Couple of observations:

1. The Proac looks very bass heavy
2. Proac with modified tunning looks pretty nice
3. M5 looks a bit bass light but this is not consistent with Goran's simulations. I think Goran uses LSPCad. Is LSPCad including other factors in its simulation?

Cheers

 

[celef]

do not forget that your room will also have some low freq gain that will alter the low freq response of the loudspeakers, what looks poor in a simulation can actually work fine in your room and setup

 

[iep]

Sure, but on the other hand, baffle step effect will knock around 3dB off over the same bandwidth.

Probably more curious as to why the data presented by Goran on his site is different from that calculated by WinISD. Does LSPCad take account of gross room effects or similar?

Cheers

 

[celef]

simulation results depends much on which parameters you are using, official or those you measure yourself. try those measured by audioexcite, see under measurement, what do you get then?

 

[iep]

That could be it. Unfortunately, no measurements have been published for the 18w/8545.

I've downloaded the demo LSPCad so will try to find some time to simulate the official results in that tool over the week. If it reports the same as WinISD then I guess it must be measured via official data.

Cheers.

 

[celef]

Audioexcite has measurements of the 8545-01 on the website, quite different values then officials

 

[iep]

Thanks. I did not seem to be able to find a link to that page via the main site. Google found it though.

I'll give that a try.

 

[iep]

Well, hot damn, doesn't that just make it all better!

Looks like perfect agreement with Goran's results. Thanks for pointing out the measured data on the site.

-6dB at 32 Hz seems pretty good to me. Excursion and port velocity all look nice too.

I'm starting to think this looks like a winner.