DIY designs that match high end commercial variants like Emotiva, Rotel, Anthem

[bassboris]

With speakers there are several DIY designs utilizing Beryllium tweeters or RAAL ribbon tweeters that match commercial speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars.

But with amplifiers I can't find any designs that match their high-end commercial counterparts like Emotiva XPA, Rotel RB-1590 or Anthem STR. The closest I can find are designs using the now obsolete LME49810.

 

[Douglas Blake]

Well, there is this little thing called Patents that tends to get in the way.

 

[MarcelvdG]

What do you mean by "match"? Clones or similar in performance? In the latter case, what performance parameters do you care about?

 

[rayma]

The closest I can find are designs using the now obsolete LME49810.

Which ones? I have a bunch of those.

 

[Mark Tillotson]

That Rotel for instance is only 0.03% THD and IMD, nowhere close to SotA, and its only a power amp.


The Anthem STR is an entire system, digital + analog + DSP, with very good specs.


You need to explain your interpretation of "high-end" I think, the examples you give are very different.

 

[bassboris]

I meant the power output of these commercial amps, class AB design pushing more than 300W per channel at 8ohms. Something I haven't seen on DIY designs.

 

[xrk971]

Patents don’t stop you from making one for your own use. Getting the schematics might be the harder issue. However, I think that there are many DIY designs here in this forum that are superior to so-called high end amps. Which are really there because of reputation and quality of build and fit and finish.

 

[Douglas Blake]

Patents don’t stop you from making one for your own use. Getting the schematics might be the harder issue. However, I think that there are many DIY designs here in this forum that are superior to so-called high end amps. Which are really there because of reputation and quality of build and fit and finish.

True ... but publishing a virtually identical schematic online. as a DIY project, is bound to bring the lawyer's a knocking.

And, indeed, I agree. Many of us DIY types produce far superior designs. We don't have to make cost or manufacturing compromises...

 

[bassboris]

The closest I can find are designs using the now obsolete LME49810.

Which ones? I have a bunch of those.

Project 40 on buildaudioamps.

 

[Mark Tillotson]

I meant the power output of these commercial amps, class AB design pushing more than 300W per channel at 8ohms. Something I haven't seen on DIY designs.

Oh they exist, but most designs are aimed at hifi speakers in ordinary domestic environments, not PA for a hall, so 50 to 100W is much more common.


What has this to do with high-end though?

 

[Ylli]

An electronics tech here, and not an audiophile.... But do I understand that because of the logarithmic response of the human ear, for audio to sound twice as loud requires 10 times the power?

If that is the case, a 300W amplifier will only sound twice as loud as a 30W amp. So what's the big deal with such high power?

 

[bassboris]

Oh they exist, but most designs are aimed at hifi speakers in ordinary domestic environments, not PA for a hall, so 50 to 100W is much more common.

Well commercial models like Anthem STR and Emotiva XPA provide a lot of power but aren't sold as PA amplifiers.

 

[Mark Tillotson]

An electronics tech here, and not an audiophile.... But do I understand that because of the logarithmic response of the human ear, for audio to sound twice as loud requires 10 times the power?

If that is the case, a 300W amplifier will only sound twice as loud as a 30W amp. So what's the big deal with such high power?

Its not difficult to figure out why the majority of homebrew designs are 30 to 150W range, nor is it true there are none at higher power levels, but they are not as plentiful.



What does "designs that match their high-end commercial counterparts" mean anyway?


power?
quality?
features? connectivity?

build-quality?
hype?

 

[bassboris]

Its not difficult to figure out why the majority of homebrew designs are 30 to 150W range, nor is it true there are none at higher power levels, but they are not as plentiful.

Can you point me to high power Class AB designs?

What does "designs that match their high-end commercial counterparts" mean anyway?

I meant power.

 

[Mark Tillotson]

2stageEF high performance class AB power amp / 200W8R / 400W4R
Is one. Try advanced search for subject lines containing "300W", "400W", etc.

 

[indianajo]

Honey Badger in diyaudio store above has 150 W/ch. That should be enough for indoors at home.
If your speakers will cover up .02% HD, you can buy a junk CS800s with 240 W/ch 8 ohm, .03% HD 400 w/ch 4 ohms. Coupla hundred bucks. I repaired mine for $50. Try amps for parts or repair e-bay or your local musician's exchange.
In a list of high end speakers someone posted recently, NONE specified HD at either 1 W or 300 W. 2001 SP2 speakers published 2nd harmonic HD down 20 db 54-17000 hz @ 1 W. NONE of above was even publishing tolerance of frequency response. 10 db is usual, at least JBL admits it on their consumer line. Peavey published +- 3db specs. The whole speaker industry is smoke & mirrors, and if you don't live in a city of >10 million, you can't listen to them before purchase either.
BTW CS800s sounds better than my "legendary" dynaco ST70, which has 1% hd.
I listen to classical music sometimes with 70 db dynamic range, and though I listen at 1/4 w most times in a 11x33x14 ft room , when the cannon shot goes off in 1812 overture, my amp & speakers are ready.

 

[Douglas Blake]

If that is the case, a 300W amplifier will only sound twice as loud as a 30W amp. So what's the big deal with such high power?

I often wonder that myself.

My current system, which is satisfactory in every way, uses 50w/ch. When first hooking it up I wanted to do a full power test to see where the smoke came from So I called downstairs to the superintendent of my building and let her know that I would be making noise for a few minutes. Then I cranked it up and played a couple of my favorite test pieces... About 10 minutes later I went down to the pop machine in our lobby and one of the other tenants was sitting on the couch there. "Did you hear that music? Some idiot blasting Magic Carpet Ride at full volume." ... "You heard it from here?" ... "Yep". So, they heard me in the lobby ... I live on the 6th floor.

Power is not always the answer. In many cases the weak and anemic sound from some speakers is a matter of poorly designed crossovers, bad wiring, poor placement in a room, or inefficient drivers, much more than a result of not having enough power.

When I started in this hobby, 12 inch woofers were the norm, amplifiers seldom got over 40w/ch and sound quality was 99% of what it is now. Now it's all about power, 4" woofers and mobile devices... How things have changed.

 

[kevinahcc20]

Look right here at the "Modulus" DIY designs by Tom Christiansen (tomchr), they are outstanding components at very reasonable costs and Tom's documentation and support are superb!

 

[SRMcGee]

Patents don’t stop you from making one for your own use.

xrk971:

I don't know where you got this idea, but it's flat out wrong. Patent protection extends to all instances of copying or use of a patented design. There is no exception for non-commercial or personal use. While it is true that the likelihood of a patent-holder's counsel pursuing you for misappropriation is low, the risk certainly exists.

Regards,
Scott

 

[MarcelvdG]

That differs from country to country, and the thread starter has no location. In any case, you don't need to violate any patents to make a very high power amplifier.