I tried this post in the audio asylum. Got lots of agreement, but not specific plans. Maybe you DIY'ers have tried this and would be willing to share your ideas. I have tried several subwoofers to give more "punch" to my Maggie 20.1 system, but all have been of the closed box design--ported or sealed--and I could never get them to integrate well with my planars. Didn't really get more "punch" either. Right now, I am biamping my Maggies and the sound I am getting now is the best yet. But I would STILL LIKE A MORE DYNAMIC BASS. So, maybe I'm going at it wrong. How about an OB design with six 8" woofers per side to be placed alongside the Maggies. This would make the Maggies act like "wings," thus extending the bass. Also, an OB array should mimic the way the planars launch a wave front, possiby lending more coherence to the overall sound. Has anyone done this? Can you recommend drivers, xover, etc. ?
Thanks,
Chuck
Thanks,
Chuck
Hi,
I won´t recommend a plain OB for this usage. Folded Dipole baffles are more promising. Styles could be U, A, N or W. Depending on the drivers parameters and the goal You are aiming at You can choose one of those cabinet styles. They all have the advantage of lesser suck-out at lower freqs than the OB, i.e. less equing needed. A-type and small versions of N- and W-type reduce the freeair resonace frequency of the drivers.
My favourites are the A- and the small N-type. The former if You want an easy to build cabinet and if You like to ´see´ the drivers. The latter with an exceptional small building width and usually the most lowering of Fs. With both types you can use drivers with ~5Hz higher Fs than the proposed Fb.
As drivers You can use longthrow types (>+-4mm) with progressive suspensions. The moving system shouldn´t be heavy (<40gr for a 8" driver). Fs beeing ~30Hz-40Hz. The Qt shouldn´t be low (>0.4 - <0.8)
A nice example is the Peerless SLS8.
jauu
Calvin
I won´t recommend a plain OB for this usage. Folded Dipole baffles are more promising. Styles could be U, A, N or W. Depending on the drivers parameters and the goal You are aiming at You can choose one of those cabinet styles. They all have the advantage of lesser suck-out at lower freqs than the OB, i.e. less equing needed. A-type and small versions of N- and W-type reduce the freeair resonace frequency of the drivers.
My favourites are the A- and the small N-type. The former if You want an easy to build cabinet and if You like to ´see´ the drivers. The latter with an exceptional small building width and usually the most lowering of Fs. With both types you can use drivers with ~5Hz higher Fs than the proposed Fb.
As drivers You can use longthrow types (>+-4mm) with progressive suspensions. The moving system shouldn´t be heavy (<40gr for a 8" driver). Fs beeing ~30Hz-40Hz. The Qt shouldn´t be low (>0.4 - <0.8)
A nice example is the Peerless SLS8.
jauu
Calvin
Hello Calvin,
I am reviving that old thread because I have a similar use case, but with the MMGs which which are quite a bit weaker in bass that the 20.1 above.
I saw that in addition to the folded baffle types mentioned above, there is the ripole design which looks interesting. I am new to this and a little lost with so many options, so I could use some advice.
My room is not ideal, L shaped with longest dimensions of 25 and 30'. I am currently running the Maggies with a 2x500W Hypex amp and a 12" active sealed sub crossed a 80 hz, which really helps but lacks detail to match the Maggies.
Any advice on the best setup you would recommend?
On the drivers side, looking around, the Peerless SLS8 seems hard to beat, especially for the price.
I also saw this offer from Electrodynamics and I wonder what you think about the design?
Thank you for your insight.
I am reviving that old thread because I have a similar use case, but with the MMGs which which are quite a bit weaker in bass that the 20.1 above.
I saw that in addition to the folded baffle types mentioned above, there is the ripole design which looks interesting. I am new to this and a little lost with so many options, so I could use some advice.
My room is not ideal, L shaped with longest dimensions of 25 and 30'. I am currently running the Maggies with a 2x500W Hypex amp and a 12" active sealed sub crossed a 80 hz, which really helps but lacks detail to match the Maggies.
Any advice on the best setup you would recommend?
On the drivers side, looking around, the Peerless SLS8 seems hard to beat, especially for the price.
I also saw this offer from Electrodynamics and I wonder what you think about the design?
Thank you for your insight.
Actually, I found the Ciare HWB200 which seems to be a better candidate for a ripole. It can be ordered from TLHP to the US for a reasonable price.
Did you run your several different subwoofers with or without EQ, and have you heard a system which gives the 'punch' you desire at your normal listening levels?
I use gain, crossover and phase control on my sub and it gives me all the punch I need. What I am looking for is more instruments detail and clarity in the mid-bass, which I understand may be available with drivers having a small mms. I also read that the ripole has a more "musical" rendering which is why I am interested in it.
Not quite following. Post started with subs and now it's up to mid bass detail and clarity! What frequency range is of interest?
Between 30 and about 100 Hz, although the actual crossover frequency would be adjusted through DSP based on results. Sorry for the confusion.
IMHO this topic is even more timely than ever... open baffle bass has growing interest, and Magnepan has been showing their prototype dipole woofer tower with both LRS and even a special "condo" version of the new 30.7 The key seems to be small woofers (low mms, faster settling time, better match for the impulse response of the panels) and DSP control (and this is the part I am now trying to learn more about).
I don't want to wait for Magnepan to finally release this product, for a variety of reasons... I love their speakers but I find the company to be out of touch and very irritating in their product decisions. But I have similar interests as I run a pair of Martin Logan CLS-II, and one could argue that they are among the very few speakers that are even more difficult to integrate with a sub than Magnepans.
Anyways, it seems to me that the ideal situation is to run panels (planar or e-stat) either full range in the lows or high pass them somewhere between 50 and 120 Hz, depending on slope and other factors.... and to run a pair of dipole woofer towers from around 30 Hz give or take a little depending on x-max of drivers and how brutal you want to push the DSP on them, and up higher than usual subwoofer limits so as to achieve a little more blended bass presentation... say somewhere between 100 and 200 Hz.
I am thinking of a project for some mini towers to flank the sides of my CLS-II panels, running 30-120Hz with the first octave being very strong output 30-60 Hz as this is where the panels have very little to no output at all, and then a very light blend with smooth roll off from 60-120 Hz just to give a little more overall warmth to the sound signature and help blend the bass across a broader range. Listening to the Magnepan demos on YouTube, Wendel at Magnepan love to run the dipole woofer towers full range just to prove how versatile they are beyond the typical subwoofer... but I am not sure what drivers they are using, how many of them, and the cabinet design... they are very tight lipped about the whole thing right now.... but I would guess that a minimal U-baffle with three or four 7 or 8 inch woofers would do the trick.
So I am now beginning to research a project that would take a miniDSP 2x4 HD getting the RCA line output from my preamp (balanced line output goes to my main power amp and CLS-II) then output from 2x4 HD goes to a budget class D amp and then to these DIY dipole woofer towers. I guess the key now is understanding what driver parameters are most important, how to calculate the number of drivers required to safely hit a desired -3db open baffle bass target of 30 Hz, and how much power to get them there. Anyone have some ideas or examples to point me to?
I don't want to wait for Magnepan to finally release this product, for a variety of reasons... I love their speakers but I find the company to be out of touch and very irritating in their product decisions. But I have similar interests as I run a pair of Martin Logan CLS-II, and one could argue that they are among the very few speakers that are even more difficult to integrate with a sub than Magnepans.
Anyways, it seems to me that the ideal situation is to run panels (planar or e-stat) either full range in the lows or high pass them somewhere between 50 and 120 Hz, depending on slope and other factors.... and to run a pair of dipole woofer towers from around 30 Hz give or take a little depending on x-max of drivers and how brutal you want to push the DSP on them, and up higher than usual subwoofer limits so as to achieve a little more blended bass presentation... say somewhere between 100 and 200 Hz.
I am thinking of a project for some mini towers to flank the sides of my CLS-II panels, running 30-120Hz with the first octave being very strong output 30-60 Hz as this is where the panels have very little to no output at all, and then a very light blend with smooth roll off from 60-120 Hz just to give a little more overall warmth to the sound signature and help blend the bass across a broader range. Listening to the Magnepan demos on YouTube, Wendel at Magnepan love to run the dipole woofer towers full range just to prove how versatile they are beyond the typical subwoofer... but I am not sure what drivers they are using, how many of them, and the cabinet design... they are very tight lipped about the whole thing right now.... but I would guess that a minimal U-baffle with three or four 7 or 8 inch woofers would do the trick.
So I am now beginning to research a project that would take a miniDSP 2x4 HD getting the RCA line output from my preamp (balanced line output goes to my main power amp and CLS-II) then output from 2x4 HD goes to a budget class D amp and then to these DIY dipole woofer towers. I guess the key now is understanding what driver parameters are most important, how to calculate the number of drivers required to safely hit a desired -3db open baffle bass target of 30 Hz, and how much power to get them there. Anyone have some ideas or examples to point me to?