Difference Between 1850 and 186 FOLDED HORN!!!!

wg_ski

Member
2007-10-10 5:21 pm
The 186 should give you higher output, when used with the recommended higher-BL drivers. The 1850 horn was re-tuned to accomodate lower-BL drivers (including Eminence). I fooled around with using it for Omega Pro drivers breifly, but dropped it in favor of something more like the Tuba36 with a 15" instead of an 18. Those old-school horn designs really need the stronger motors.
 
Hi!

Quote
The 186 should give you higher output, when used with the recommended higher-BL drivers. The 1850 horn was re-tuned to accomodate lower-BL drivers (including Eminence). I fooled around with using it for Omega Pro drivers breifly, but dropped it in favor of something more like the Tuba36 with a 15" instead of an 18. Those old-school horn designs really need the stronger motors.
Unquote

Ins't not the inverse?
If I remember Rog Mogale made them:
1850 has a bit minus back Vb, made for PD1850 less extension down and more SPL.
1856 has a bit bigger back Vb, made for the 186 goes a bit lower in extension, with a bit minus in SPL.
After Void made a better one called Lonney with a driver like Void18/1000, a mule kick in your face.
[IMGDEAD]https://img4.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/17527/175276724a38caed8b92c1bcad2b93fea5be64c6.jpg[/IMGDEAD]


Made four mod 1850, with a bit morew back Vb and are very good speakers.
In a stack of four with correct cross could easy do it from 40 to 100Hz very well. Above a bit onky.
Made 2 T36 trying several drivers innit. No way. Nothing down low. HD 15 performs better with less than half the volume of the box. Firing the wood was the better ideia.
Post some photos of the burning beside jbell's ones.
Wayne Parham made some curves of this things performance in a subwoofer shoutout.
Some days after it dissapears from BF site.

Regards,
 

just a guy

Member
2006-05-12 6:59 pm
Could someone please tell me the difference between the two designs? and what benefits these would give me if i built them.

I will be building some this weekend (week)

I'd be more interested in the similarities. Neither one will go below 50 hz. Kind of adequate for PA for bar band old style rock music but not much else.

It will need a steep high pass filter probably around 60 hz, once that's in place it will already be down at least 3 db at 60.

IMO basically useless for any type of modern music.
 

just a guy

Member
2006-05-12 6:59 pm
Speakerplans.com

The low knee is around 70 hz. It's already about 5 db down at 50 hz. Add a 60 hz highpass filter and it will be 5 db down at 60 hz.

Add 3 more (stack of 4) and it will be 12 db louder and it will go about 2 hz lower.

Like I said, useless for any type of modern music. Very loud but it's not a subwoofer. I'd call it a midbass horn.
 
Speakerplans.com

The low knee is around 70 hz. It's already about 5 db down at 50 hz. Add a 60 hz highpass filter and it will be 5 db down at 60 hz.

Add 3 more (stack of 4) and it will be 12 db louder and it will go about 2 hz lower.

Like I said, useless for any type of modern music. Very loud but it's not a subwoofer. I'd call it a midbass horn.

all your posts are very interesting, and i have tried asking on speaker plans and no one seems to want to reply! but this forum seems a lot nicer :)

I have also tried contacting the designer but im guessing these are old plans!!!

So you think that folded horns would be a bad idea for a DJ playing house and dubstep ?

Any suggestions ?
 
The 1850 horn was ment to be used in stacks of four. The 186 horn sounds "warmer" and is more suited to be used with less cabinets. High pass at 50 Hz for a single 1850 horn, 40 - 45 Hz for a stack of four (24 dB/octave or more), around 45 Hz for a single 186 horn.

For dubstep you probably would miss that lower "umph", for most house music it will be sufficient.

With four 1850 horns and correct drivers, you'll have a "long throw" indoor and outdoor setup.

How many layers (laminates) does that ply have?
 
First of all, stop calling them folded horns. ALL the horn subs are folded - the front loaded horns, the rear loaded horns and the tapped horns are all folded. These are front loaded horns.

Front loaded horns are fine for house and dubstep. THESE particular front loaded horns that you have chose are not good for much of anything.

Like I told you a month ago, you need to state your goals clearly if you want any recommendations. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...oop-folded-horn-subwoofers-3.html#post3410738
As far as I know you haven't attempted to answer a single question I asked yet.

The 3 main questions are -
1. budget (do you already have the drivers and how much money do you have?)
2. required spl (required spl at the furthest distance of interest)
3. required frequency response

#3 is the one in question with these horns you've chosen. You can analyse your music with software to see how low it goes and determine from there how low you want your subs to go. The lower you go the larger and more expensive the system is going to be.

For an idea of what this will sound like, if you have a system that's relatively flat and a multi band eq, you can use the eq to bring 60 hz down by 3 db and everything below 60 hz pull it down all the way. The eq will probably only let you pull the lower bass down 12 db (which isn't nearly enough to reflect how bad these subs will be) so listen to that and imagine even LESS low bass and decide if that's what you want.

These speakerplans horns will pound you silly above 60 hz but they won't do anything below 50 hz at all. If it were me, I'd shoot for extension down to AT LEAST 35 hz for modern music. There are lots of horn subs that can do that, which one to pick depends on how loud it needs to be.
 
The 1850 horn was ment to be used in stacks of four. The 186 horn sounds "warmer" and is more suited to be used with less cabinets. High pass at 50 Hz for a single 1850 horn, 40 - 45 Hz for a stack of four (24 dB/octave or more), around 45 Hz for a single 186 horn.

For dubstep you probably would miss that lower "umph", for most house music it will be sufficient.

With four 1850 horns and correct drivers, you'll have a "long throw" indoor and outdoor setup.

How many layers (laminates) does that ply have?

I haven't simmed these horns but I'm confident that a 50 hz highpass will not protect them adequately. A 60 hz highpass might do it, but all front loaded horns need a highpass a bit higher than the low knee.

In a stack of 4 these MIGHT be flat down to 50 hz with the high pass filter in place (since a stack of 4 will bump up the lower bass a bit).

I guess you could call that "sufficient" for most music but it's clearly the wrong tool for the job for dubstep (and I suspect most of his music is going to be like that).
 
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1. awesome
2. That doesn't mean much. 140 is insanely loud so I'm guessing you mean 140 @ 1m. That's a good goal but there's no way to know if that's adequate or overkill unless you specify the boundary loading (room or lack of room - I believe you said this was an open field) and distance to the furthest part of the audience. This will determine how many you need in your stack.
3. That's a good goal and will suit your music fine. You'll still miss a bit of the lowest bass but only in a few songs and it won't be noticed much if at all. I'll look around a bit for 30 hz horns. There are a few that will do 35 hz (like Labhorn) but I don't recall any 30 hz horns off the top of my head right now. There's also a couple that do 25 but I can't recall any 30 hz horns at the moment. Give me awhile to look around.
 
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Here's one. It's a tapped horn.

The Othorn tapped horn
Data-Bass

A stack of 4 will do over 140 db/1m outside with no boundary loading. It's expensive but it's fairly small for what it puts out. There's a bunch of different drivers that will work in it but the driver it was designed around is probably the best bet to get insanely loud. It takes a load of power (single cab was tested around 4300 watts).

When you look at the graphs, remember that this guy measures at 2m, so add 6 db to get the 1m equivalent. His graphs say 126 db/2m peak, which is 132 db/1m (single cab) and adding 12 db for a stack of 4 would be 144 db/1m. This isn't theoretical simulation, this guy tested it and measured that. (He only measured a single cab, not a stack of 4.)

I'll look around for more 30 hz horns later today.