Hi,
I have a couple of Dali Spektor 1 speakers (4.5" woofer TM 2-way).-
I wanted to look the crossover so I removed the 4 screws on the back to check it. It's no surprise that it's that simple, after all its one of the cheapest speakers from Dali... but the thing is that both capacitors are NPE! Even very cheap speakers have, at least, a Poly Cap on the tweeter, but not these...
So, my question is, would I gain anything If I replace the capacitors with some Audyn or Jatnzen? At least on the tweeter... another alternative is just to make a new crossover, with the same exact values and design, just using better components, that for a matter of costs where not used in the beginning (new resistors, inductors and caps).
The extra cost associated is not a problem, as long as there is an improvement. In my country there is not much offer on good speakers, and importing them is very expensive because of weight and import duties, but importing little XO parts it's not a problem.
I have a couple of Dali Spektor 1 speakers (4.5" woofer TM 2-way).-
I wanted to look the crossover so I removed the 4 screws on the back to check it. It's no surprise that it's that simple, after all its one of the cheapest speakers from Dali... but the thing is that both capacitors are NPE! Even very cheap speakers have, at least, a Poly Cap on the tweeter, but not these...
So, my question is, would I gain anything If I replace the capacitors with some Audyn or Jatnzen? At least on the tweeter... another alternative is just to make a new crossover, with the same exact values and design, just using better components, that for a matter of costs where not used in the beginning (new resistors, inductors and caps).
The extra cost associated is not a problem, as long as there is an improvement. In my country there is not much offer on good speakers, and importing them is very expensive because of weight and import duties, but importing little XO parts it's not a problem.
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If those 10v NPEs are healthy, you will not change the filter function, but polys will not change with mere decades.
The problem is hurting the NPEs while testing them, as they do not suffer heat gladly.
Just get small polys as there's not much air to spare in those boxes, giant caps will change the box.
The coils and resistors will not be improved in function by changing, but a big air-core(to maintain Re) would eat up air volume.
So, four caps make a cheap durability upgrade with restoration of function (if any were wandering in value).
The problem is hurting the NPEs while testing them, as they do not suffer heat gladly.
Just get small polys as there's not much air to spare in those boxes, giant caps will change the box.
The coils and resistors will not be improved in function by changing, but a big air-core(to maintain Re) would eat up air volume.
So, four caps make a cheap durability upgrade with restoration of function (if any were wandering in value).
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Those are 100 V NPE's by the way, not 10! 🙂
My original post assumed that the Dali's were from the 1980's based on the crossover. My bad!
I've heard and seen the measurements on current day Dali speakers, but not this specific model. Dali run the tweets a couple of DB higher than the mid-woofers. If they were mine, I'd measure them and see if I wanted to change the tweeter level before spending any money.
If you want to keep the tonal balance as is, and just want better caps I recommend Clarity CSA and Mundorf MKP. Actually for what I've heard, I'd strongly recommend the latter as a warmer sounding cap. They're pretty inexpensive too. Be aware they are significantly larger than the wet counter parts, so any cap you order check the size.
Personally, I like to use Mills resistors when swapping. Smaller, higher power, and relatively inexpensive.
Have fun!!
Best,
E
My original post assumed that the Dali's were from the 1980's based on the crossover. My bad!
I've heard and seen the measurements on current day Dali speakers, but not this specific model. Dali run the tweets a couple of DB higher than the mid-woofers. If they were mine, I'd measure them and see if I wanted to change the tweeter level before spending any money.
If you want to keep the tonal balance as is, and just want better caps I recommend Clarity CSA and Mundorf MKP. Actually for what I've heard, I'd strongly recommend the latter as a warmer sounding cap. They're pretty inexpensive too. Be aware they are significantly larger than the wet counter parts, so any cap you order check the size.
Personally, I like to use Mills resistors when swapping. Smaller, higher power, and relatively inexpensive.
Have fun!!
Best,
E
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Jeez, you slip one zero.... Yes, I meant that 100volters behave much closer to the high-priced spread than 32 or 50volters.
Ignorance is bliss. Once it is seen it can't be forgotten. I also suffer from trying to improve things that aren't broken. My justification is "they have to cut corners for mass production and I can improve MY "thing"". Well then I change the design and in this case the sound. Not always for the better...
Good luck in your endeavor!
Good luck in your endeavor!
I think you should take this as a learning experience. Spend $15/speaker. Do you hear a difference after?
You've learned something few know for themselves.
You've learned something few know for themselves.
but as I mentioned, the cool part about the Dali is that the crossover has << cough>> unique choices. 🙂
This is an excellent speaker to learn to do speaker analysis with, and see if you can do better, and how your choices in the crossover affect the desirability of the speaker after.
That's a lot more work, and more expensive in tools though.
This is an excellent speaker to learn to do speaker analysis with, and see if you can do better, and how your choices in the crossover affect the desirability of the speaker after.
That's a lot more work, and more expensive in tools though.
Loudspeaker drivers change over time as does our hearing so a tune up may be in order if you are inclined to do that. Electro's NPE have a tendancy to dry out, particularly those little fella's. Voltage rating is one thing, size is another, heat dissipation in the NPE in the bass driver's filter is likely to change value somewhat sooner, so that might be a suggestion to change rather than the tweeter's cap. But then, changing both caps might be of audible value too.
Overall from the consumer reviews I have read they seem to be much liked so possibly well designed, so unless something is obviously wrong with them then no significant gains are to be had. Surprisingly, price plays only a small part in the listenability of a loudspeaker, it all comes down to engineering.
C.M
Overall from the consumer reviews I have read they seem to be much liked so possibly well designed, so unless something is obviously wrong with them then no significant gains are to be had. Surprisingly, price plays only a small part in the listenability of a loudspeaker, it all comes down to engineering.
C.M
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Thanks for your replies.
By no means I think I can do better than a Dali engineer, but considering the price on these speakers, there is a chance a better component might shelf a better performance w/o changing the initial design.
The speakers are new, so the NPE are probably in top shape.
I've already made some REW measurements with these speakers, and yes... the tweeter is louder than the woofer, and I like that (some find it fatiguing).
I will go ahead and get some poly caps and Jantzen Superes to test the speaker.
Regards.
By no means I think I can do better than a Dali engineer, but considering the price on these speakers, there is a chance a better component might shelf a better performance w/o changing the initial design.
The speakers are new, so the NPE are probably in top shape.
I've already made some REW measurements with these speakers, and yes... the tweeter is louder than the woofer, and I like that (some find it fatiguing).
I will go ahead and get some poly caps and Jantzen Superes to test the speaker.
Regards.
You are not alone. I think that in particular it helps those who like to listen at lower volumes.
You know though, there's a few things you could do cheaply.
You could measure the impedance of each driver, and simulate the crossover in XSim.
You won't get the acoustic output right, but you can simulate the transfer function.
You'll need REW and a custom jig. Google REW and impedance measurements.
You could measure the impedance of each driver, and simulate the crossover in XSim.
You won't get the acoustic output right, but you can simulate the transfer function.
You'll need REW and a custom jig. Google REW and impedance measurements.