Confusion from profusion

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
Needing some cash to fund my growing photography habit/business I am reluctantly selling my 15" Tannoy DC's:bawling: But this corner of the diyaudio site for full range speakers has got me thinking I can replace the lumps with something equally appealing.

I am sticking with a Trends TA10.1 so will need efficiency (which doesn't seem to be an issue)

The Demetri looks good but there does not seem to be a great deal on it on the site.

The Fonken looks great (small driver imaging and speed as well as top end clarity though 'maybe' lacking in the balls dept?) but I can't really stretch to a sub at the moment.

I play all sorts from trashy pop & rock for when I just want music to small scale jazz (ahmed jamal etc) and a whole range of classical when I listen.

I can sacrifice bass for imaging but as usual I want it all:D

Any ideas?
 
JRKO said:
Needing some cash to fund my growing photography habit/business I am reluctantly selling my 15" Tannoy DC's:bawling: But this corner of the diyaudio site for full range speakers has got me thinking I can replace the lumps with something equally appealing.

I am sticking with a Trends TA10.1 so will need efficiency (which doesn't seem to be an issue)


If you haven't already bought the amp, you might want to look at the Kingrex T20U - I've got one of each the Trends and Kingrex (both bone stock) - for me the Kingrex sounds substantially better than the Trends and the "U" model for $20 or so more includes a pretty decent sounding USB DAC - just plug in your laptop or PC and you're ready to rock.


The Demetri looks good but there does not seem to be a great deal on it on the site.


not a tiny box - and wasted in small venue - sounds great with even "just" the FE167E, (should be absolutely killer with FE207E/FT17H ) definitely has more "balls" than either the Mileva or any member of the Fonken family



The Fonken looks great (small driver imaging and speed as well as top end clarity though 'maybe' lacking in the balls dept?) but I can't really stretch to a sub at the moment.

I play all sorts from trashy pop & rock for when I just want music to small scale jazz (ahmed jamal etc) and a whole range of classical when I listen.

I can sacrifice bass for imaging but as usual I want it all:D

Any ideas?

the original Fonken is still my overall favorite for small rooms/moderate listening levels - if you're looking for subterannean bass and/or to blast Metallica at 110dB, I'd suggest you look elsewhere (Hawthorne Silver Iris 15" comes to mind)

Except for remaining limitations of maximum attainable levels, another alternative would be the combo of mFonken & dual active woofers.

Either Mileva and Brynn offer a bit more bass weight than Fonken, although at the sacrifice of articulation ("finesse") and imaging. I use a pair of Mileva for video (currently with a TA10.1) and with the additional visual element, the performance "sacrifice" isn't a an issue. In a big room, this is where the Demetri will really shine - except for crazy loud/deep you can probably forego the subs.


disclosure - after trying for several years, (not very hard ) I've completely abandoned the multichannel HT experience, and couldn't be happier with the arrangement (as is my wife)
 
Demetris and 41HzBasicAmp6

listening to these now with Hemp FR8 drivers. Very nice. If out in the room may need more bass for some (as all the Demetris would), so will benefit from BSC. If stuffed into the corners the mid-bass gets a little too much. Some have complained to me there seems to be a little more sparkle needed. I don't find that but the local Bass-head (the missus) would like a little more zing.
Thankfully panomaniac and Planet10 have addressed that ...look here


stew
 

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
Thanks for the replies guys.

My room is 'roughly' W 3.5m x L 4.75m x H 2.25m with a kitchen off one width via a door in the centre (actually doorway - currently no door!) and a hallway (that opens into a double bedroom on one side and bathroom on the other) off one of the long sides right up by the kitchen wall. Will this be big enough?

I will be listening across the room from the one unbroken long wall to the wall with the hall way off it. I thought that with the layout above and the doors open it will essentially act as one(ish) space?

The speakers will be almost against the long wall but in from the corners by about 0.5m.

The Fonken's look great and the articulation from the small driver as well as the control the amp will have on a small light driver sounds great. What sort of efficiency do they have in that cab?

The size of the Demetri is not a problem with my very significant other. I like the thought of the extra bottom end but worry about the top. You suggest adding a Fostex hf driver but will that stop the point source imaging or is it just for 'air/ambient fill? I am 30 so i guess my hearing is on its slow slide downwards :(

I listen mainly when the world has gone to bed and in the morning before my wife gets up so can't go too loud but still want the whole range. I assume imaging would be better with the smaller drivers?
 

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
The Wall

How close can either the Demetri or the Mileva be used with a wall?

'She Who MUST Be Obeyed' has redesigned our living room (it does look very nice:D) and the speakers WILL now be firing down the length of the room towards the kitchen.

In between them there is a square bay window. Will this go some way to offsetting the against wall placement and fairly close proximity to corners (0.50m from middle of the driver)?

This is going to sound lumpy as hell now, with a midrange thats the aural consistency of custard isn't it?

Would a smaller driver help? Maybe the Mileva with a fe127e.

I could get a Behringer something or other to bash the life out of the sound and MAKE it work:mad:
 

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
FT17H

Nanook recomended using an FT17H horn tweeter to assist the upper frq.

How would they be connected up? Would a second T10 be a good idea to drive them actively because from what I remember from electronics at school whatever I put inline to prevent low frq. going to the tweets will reduce the efficiency overall quite dramatically.
 
recommended tweeter....

I suggested that an add on tweeter may be to some folks' taste (my nephew the drummer has complained that the last bit of "sparkle" is missing from the Hemps in the Demetri enclosure--without baffle step. With BSC the highs seem to have become more extended as well as the bass. My local bass head has given her approval). I personally don't feel the need for a tweeter. No specific recommendation was made regarding a tweeter, but a Fostex would make sense. A little closer to the rear wall (about 1-1.25 meters, right now with BSC) and I think they may very well actually hit the low 40Hz range or maybe even high 30s! Of course I presently have no way of proving that.

As far as EnABLing the enclosures (and drivers), I simply don't have personal experience to draw upon. I will say that, to me, the EnABLing process does make a lot of sense. It is not "snake oil". I'm just kinda chicken...

Although rooting around my basement I did happen to find a really nice set of Speedball nibs and a couple of handles (I actually used to be able to draw freehand in ink, but alas I have given it up). And I did go and buy some Speedball ink. And I do have an assortment of acrylic paint kicking around too, so one never knows when I'll get up the nerve (having seen dave wield a hobby knife fearlessly and devour some dust caps with it, I know I may not be of the same ilk as he)...

Regarding a Behringer something or other---the more you have to muck with electronics an equalizing, the further you are from the music. Just a thought. chris and dave have personal experience with the Milevas, I don't except for a very brief listen.


stew
 
An FT17 capped off at your choice of frequency (suggest 10 - 12KHz) & with the levels dialed in to taste with an Lpad should be good. Couple of options too -you could go front or rear mounted (the latter would depend on how close to a rear wall you went of course & if you like the ambient sound). Its a nice little unit in my experience... looking forward to hearing how an EnABLed version compares.

Stew -I'd get the pens out. You've got the talent there, so it should be a doddle for you. My 167s will finally get the treatment this month. I might see if I can damp the cones a bit too while I'm at it.
 

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
Oops

Sorry Nanook, it was Chris who noted the FT17H :rolleyes:I'm going senile and mixing you guys up!

I am used to big Tannoy's which have a centrally mounted HF unit. How does the treble from a full ranger unit compare?

Will the 8" units struggle to spread the stage in front of me due to their size and be bettered by the 127s? ChrisB said 'Either Mileva and Brynn offer a bit more bass weight than Fonken, although at the sacrifice of articulation ("finesse") and imaging'

If the smaller drivers really are better for 'realism', I have a couple of unused amps (Quad 99 80wpc and Jungson 80wpc Class A) that would be ok for sub duties at a later date. I read somewhere about an 8" driver Planet10 was looking at for Fonken support.

I blame ChrisB, Planet10 & Scottmoose for producing too many good designs:clown:
 
It ain't the treble that's the major difference so much as the fact that you don't have an XO slap-bang in the telephone band, so you'll find the midrange much cleaner & more natural (good though Tannoy DCs are).

Back onto the treble itself, it depends on the driver & they make a decent fist of it, but they usually aren't as good as a dedicated unit (as you'd expect) at the top end. But that last degree of missing 'air' is very easily solved by adding a supertweeter, and because it's well above our most sensitive hearing zone, a very simple XO can be used, capping the thin off & adjusting the levels to taste.
 
senility ever increasing here :) ...

as scottmoose stated, fullrangers often do not do as well at the frequency extremes as do seperate drivers. To me, the pluses outweigh the minuses. Again regarding the Demetris using Hemp Fr8 with the whizzer removed and phase plug added (and cone treated), I find no need for a tweeter.

My wife hasn't commented on the BSC'd Demetris yet, but I'm hearing better highs and lower lows. I would reserve the need for super tweeters until you hear a Fonken, Demetri or similar. If needed, I dare say, that the frequency required for the tweeter may be crossed over at a higher frequency than scottmoose has suggested. But again, that is a very personal thing.

If you already own some super tweeters (doesn't Tannoy make some?), then I'd definitely try them. If you have to buy them, I'd wait until you hear your chosen driver in its enclosure. I know that the Fonkens using modified FE127s didn't need a tweeter at all. Again a very subjective thing.

not sure if anything I've stated has helped. I do need to state that I am in no way affiliated with Dave (planet10) or any in this thread, so really have absolutely nothing to gain by this. And please read my disclaimer in my signature....



stew
 

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
'I like the look of Bruce'

My wife was off work today and was looking through the design plans i left on the table. Guess what?

She thinks the Demetri looks too boring. 'Just a box with a speaker in it and too plain' she said :rolleyes:

But here is the winning quote 'I like the look of Bruce' :eek: :D

same positioning (fairly close to a corner) but now 'better looking'. Gotta love my wife :clown:

Will the Bruce work in my room:confused:
 
Re: 'I like the look of Bruce'

JRKO said:
My wife was off work today and was looking through the design plans i left on the table. Guess what?

She thinks the Demetri looks too boring. 'Just a box with a speaker in it and too plain' she said :rolleyes:

But here is the winning quote 'I like the look of Bruce' :eek: :D

same positioning (fairly close to a corner) but now 'better looking'. Gotta love my wife :clown:



maybe she'll volunteer to write a "handbook for surviving your man's audio affliction"

subtitled "enjoy the ride - he could be out whoring around"
 

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
I complemented her on her excellent taste (she married me and likes the Bruce) and then explained what the large 'holes' (that made them interesting) were for and could be termed mouths.

Then I asked if the reason she liked it was, that like her, the speaker always had their mouth open :D

I wish i had not taught her how to punch :bawling:


Will they work in near corner placement? Or are my dreams of a funky, wife approved, speaker in vain :confused:
 
JRKO said:
I complemented her on her excellent taste (she married me and likes the Bruce) and then explained what the large 'holes' (that made them interesting) were for and could be termed mouths.

Then I asked if the reason she liked it was, that like her, the speaker always had their mouth open :D

I wish i had not taught her how to punch :bawling:


Will they work in near corner placement? Or are my dreams of a funky, wife approved, speaker in vain :confused:


it's a good thing you didn't say "2 *****, no waiting"
 

JRKO

Member
2003-12-26 11:20 pm
U.K.
Happy chappy with a bruised arm

I have read that BIB's work well in the corners but how about BVR/double mouth horns?

Sorry Scott, you must have hit the submit button before me.

She really is one in a million. In the last 6yrs I have put her through me being an a near fatal car crash, 4 operations on my legs, I changed my job 4 times and spent a fortune on my hifi.


Any ideas on the Enabled 207 costs? I cant see it on P10's site.


She even suggested lighting them with a single led inside the mouths....:D
 
Re: Happy chappy with a bruised arm

JRKO said:
I have read that BIB's work well in the corners but how about BVR/double mouth horns?

Sorry Scott, you must have hit the submit button before me.

She really is one in a million. In the last 6yrs I have put her through me being an a near fatal car crash, 4 operations on my legs, I changed my job 4 times and spent a fortune on my hifi.


Any ideas on the Enabled 207 costs? I cant see it on P10's site.


She even suggested lighting them with a single led inside the mouths....:D


e-mail Dave directly for pricing,

and does she have any sisters?