I purchased 8 CDs this month, various labels. All of them are heavily compressed without any regard for the artists and music. I have become increasingly frustrated listening to such recordings. I might as well have a Walkman or an all-in-one box to listen to such CDs.
I am particularly offended by the Cohen Live in London (2008). Columbia 88697405022. Heavily compressed with only 6-8dB of dynamic peaks on most tracks. Perhaps it was intended for broadcast and most certainly not for listening pleasure. Cohen is 88 years old and this event certainly deserved better treatment.
After digging a bit deep and a few e-mails later, I am becoming aware that this is not the fault of Mastering Engineers or Mixing Engineers. Record companies such as Sony/Columbia are demanding “Squashed Music” from the mixing and mastering engineers; the so called “Level Wars”.
TEC Awards (Mix Magazine) has become a misleading index of Squashed Excellence.
We need to stop this rort. How can we do it? Perhaps write to the record companies and also to Mix Magazine? What do other members in this forum think of this?
Regards,
Mohan
22nd May, 2009
I am particularly offended by the Cohen Live in London (2008). Columbia 88697405022. Heavily compressed with only 6-8dB of dynamic peaks on most tracks. Perhaps it was intended for broadcast and most certainly not for listening pleasure. Cohen is 88 years old and this event certainly deserved better treatment.
After digging a bit deep and a few e-mails later, I am becoming aware that this is not the fault of Mastering Engineers or Mixing Engineers. Record companies such as Sony/Columbia are demanding “Squashed Music” from the mixing and mastering engineers; the so called “Level Wars”.
TEC Awards (Mix Magazine) has become a misleading index of Squashed Excellence.
We need to stop this rort. How can we do it? Perhaps write to the record companies and also to Mix Magazine? What do other members in this forum think of this?
Regards,
Mohan
22nd May, 2009
Compression works well for the masses (think iPod). The number who can even tell there is compression is limited. Lots of volume for the buck. Like you pointed out, that's why it exists.
What are you going to do? We've been discussing this for years and no one will be able to do anything about it as long as it sells. We're all on the same side but what can we do really?
Leonard Cohen is 74.
What are you going to do? We've been discussing this for years and no one will be able to do anything about it as long as it sells. We're all on the same side but what can we do really?
Leonard Cohen is 74.
Cal, I stand corrected on Cohen.
Well, I have never owned an iPod.
I plan on writing to Recording Industry Awards people and see if we can get them to agree on a minimum 20dB dynamic range. No minimum dynamic range, no awards for the year. Of course, the music content matters as well. At present I am aware of only the TEC Awards (Mix Magazine). Are there others?
I also plan on writing to Sony/Columbia and other labels who excel at producing squashed music. Perhaps, they should master three formats; one for internet downloads, a second for CD and a third for DVD.
When, the CD format was introduced some 20+ years ago, we were in the promised land of (Philips, Sony) 90dB dynamic range. What are we getting today! Approximately a tenth! Apparently, the artists, mixing and mastering engineers have no say in the final product.
Perhaps a Warning Label similar to the one on Cigarette Packets would be in order. The label should clearly state the intended use; something like:
“CD Produced for iPod”
“CD Produced for Broadcast”
“CD Produced for Music”
Is this going to be one man crusade?
Mohan
23rd May, 2009
Well, I have never owned an iPod.
I plan on writing to Recording Industry Awards people and see if we can get them to agree on a minimum 20dB dynamic range. No minimum dynamic range, no awards for the year. Of course, the music content matters as well. At present I am aware of only the TEC Awards (Mix Magazine). Are there others?
I also plan on writing to Sony/Columbia and other labels who excel at producing squashed music. Perhaps, they should master three formats; one for internet downloads, a second for CD and a third for DVD.
When, the CD format was introduced some 20+ years ago, we were in the promised land of (Philips, Sony) 90dB dynamic range. What are we getting today! Approximately a tenth! Apparently, the artists, mixing and mastering engineers have no say in the final product.
Perhaps a Warning Label similar to the one on Cigarette Packets would be in order. The label should clearly state the intended use; something like:
“CD Produced for iPod”
“CD Produced for Broadcast”
“CD Produced for Music”
Is this going to be one man crusade?
Mohan
23rd May, 2009
Show the producers that they can make monet from a tiered system and you might get somewhere. The logistics behind selling downloads is easy and cheap enough to make it work, but your suggestion would involve 3 lots of mastering. I bet a 'name' mastering engineer would still charge 3x and then there is the issue with royalties as they often get points.
I agree on principle, but until the record companies see some tangible, ie monetary benefit from doing it, I doubt they will.
The lead for this may come from established artists who can organise it themselves if they care about it.
I agree on principle, but until the record companies see some tangible, ie monetary benefit from doing it, I doubt they will.
The lead for this may come from established artists who can organise it themselves if they care about it.
Petition required
Or perhaps a survey. Maybe if we knew how many actualy gave a damn. I think you need to get some muscle behind you on this. I no longer buy CDS because the mp3s sound just as crap, and a Torrent download delivers it for free. I havn't bought a CD for a number of years now. My record shops closed down. This doesn't help. I don't help, but why should I buy crap recordings? Another thing that pi55es me off, is live music. I miss the odd microphone/feedback howl/whistle, here and there. Sombody built a feedback destroyer, why?
We need someone with some server space to hold an epetition, then signitures can be gathered. Also links from other sites to the epetition, may help.
Who will host?
Fuzzymuff🙂
Or perhaps a survey. Maybe if we knew how many actualy gave a damn. I think you need to get some muscle behind you on this. I no longer buy CDS because the mp3s sound just as crap, and a Torrent download delivers it for free. I havn't bought a CD for a number of years now. My record shops closed down. This doesn't help. I don't help, but why should I buy crap recordings? Another thing that pi55es me off, is live music. I miss the odd microphone/feedback howl/whistle, here and there. Sombody built a feedback destroyer, why?
We need someone with some server space to hold an epetition, then signitures can be gathered. Also links from other sites to the epetition, may help.
Who will host?
Fuzzymuff🙂
Brett & Fuzzymuff,
It is heartening to know that I am not alone in this world!
It is not just the money Brett but it is the trust we place in our artists and record companies. I can no longer trust Sony/Columbia.
Yes, we need to get some muscle behind this. Can this forum hold a poll? Why should we spend countless hours in the meticulous design and construction of equipment if we cannot get good music?
IMHO the best place to start will be “Awards” people. If we can express our concerns to them they might agree to a tiered system. But then, how do we get the record companies to put on appropriate labels on their products? Who controls these issues and how many “Awards” are there? We need help and dvice.
Have a look at my posts in the StereoNet Forum.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=14144
Mohan
It is heartening to know that I am not alone in this world!
It is not just the money Brett but it is the trust we place in our artists and record companies. I can no longer trust Sony/Columbia.
Yes, we need to get some muscle behind this. Can this forum hold a poll? Why should we spend countless hours in the meticulous design and construction of equipment if we cannot get good music?
IMHO the best place to start will be “Awards” people. If we can express our concerns to them they might agree to a tiered system. But then, how do we get the record companies to put on appropriate labels on their products? Who controls these issues and how many “Awards” are there? We need help and dvice.
Have a look at my posts in the StereoNet Forum.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=14144
Mohan
When CDs started to sound like 128kbps mp3 (or worse), people like us, who care care about sound, stopped to buy CDs. I did several years ago because they were no longer worth the investment.
Now the recording industry complains about lower and lower sales volume. This is not our fault, it's their fault what is hurting them.
Not to mention that most of use believe that culture itself is something essential that must be freely available for everybody, not just only for the kind of people that can pay for it without any effort.
Now the recording industry complains about lower and lower sales volume. This is not our fault, it's their fault what is hurting them.
Not to mention that most of use believe that culture itself is something essential that must be freely available for everybody, not just only for the kind of people that can pay for it without any effort.
Actually, the hyper-compression argument ("the Loudness Wars") has been raging for a while. It's even made the mainstream newspapers, and there are blogs and petitions all over the Web. For anyone new to the topic, I suggest the following URLs picked at random from the dozens on my bookmark list::
http://www.justiceforaudio.org/
http://www.johnvestman.com/disease.htm
http://sachsblog-ryan.blogspot.com/2008/09/communications-lessons-of-death.html
http://mastering-media.blogspot.com/
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article1878724.ece
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity/print
Also, Google search for "Loudness Wars".
Ian Shephards' Mastering Media Blog (URL above) has a series of articles which goes into the topic in some depth, using Metallica's recent "Death Magnetic" album as an example. It's a good example because it is available in both forms - the CD was compressed, the Guitar Hero 3 game verion was (relatively) uncompressed. It may prove to be a tipping point in the "war", because it illustrates the point so clearly. It's rare for an album to be available in both forms.
There's also a Youtube clip that illustrates the process well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
Or, search Youtube for "Loudness Wars".
http://www.justiceforaudio.org/
http://www.johnvestman.com/disease.htm
http://sachsblog-ryan.blogspot.com/2008/09/communications-lessons-of-death.html
http://mastering-media.blogspot.com/
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article1878724.ece
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity/print
Also, Google search for "Loudness Wars".
Ian Shephards' Mastering Media Blog (URL above) has a series of articles which goes into the topic in some depth, using Metallica's recent "Death Magnetic" album as an example. It's a good example because it is available in both forms - the CD was compressed, the Guitar Hero 3 game verion was (relatively) uncompressed. It may prove to be a tipping point in the "war", because it illustrates the point so clearly. It's rare for an album to be available in both forms.
There's also a Youtube clip that illustrates the process well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
Or, search Youtube for "Loudness Wars".
Check this:
The Pleasurize Music Foundation invites music listeners, artists, and music enterprises of all areas of our industry to become Active Members in order to create a basis for vibrant and natural sounding music.
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/en/our-aim
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/sites/de ... 1-2009.pdf
"We are not surprised by the fact that music listeners are losing the willingness to legally acquire music, because of the fact that contemporary releases are mercilessly over-compressed* – a situation that turns off even the biggest music fans. For example, no natural dynamic can be heard in recent CD releases from groups such as the Red Hot Chili Peppers (for example: Stadium Arcadium). The masterful drum performance by the drummer in the band Garbage (Bleed Like Me) is totally distorted. Madonna's Hard Candy generates aggression and leads to distortion when played on disco sound systems. With Metallica (Death Magnetic), the level meter needle permanently sits in the red range!
The same applies to the so-called quality criteria of surround sound recordings. Nine out of ten surround releases sound worse that the original stereo mixes or are cheap up-mixes with surround simulation – this is no way to entice music listeners to move to a new high-resolution format based on Blu-ray technology.
(* here we speak about dynamic compression and NOT data compression! Please be aware about the difference)
It has been already proofed by academic reseaches that there is no correlation between loudness and sales. There is a proven tendency that compression is limiting commercial success. The idea of over-compressed music leading to sales is only a widespread myth. The truth is: loud sells less."
Loudspeakers from Abyss
The Pleasurize Music Foundation invites music listeners, artists, and music enterprises of all areas of our industry to become Active Members in order to create a basis for vibrant and natural sounding music.
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/en/our-aim
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/sites/de ... 1-2009.pdf
"We are not surprised by the fact that music listeners are losing the willingness to legally acquire music, because of the fact that contemporary releases are mercilessly over-compressed* – a situation that turns off even the biggest music fans. For example, no natural dynamic can be heard in recent CD releases from groups such as the Red Hot Chili Peppers (for example: Stadium Arcadium). The masterful drum performance by the drummer in the band Garbage (Bleed Like Me) is totally distorted. Madonna's Hard Candy generates aggression and leads to distortion when played on disco sound systems. With Metallica (Death Magnetic), the level meter needle permanently sits in the red range!
The same applies to the so-called quality criteria of surround sound recordings. Nine out of ten surround releases sound worse that the original stereo mixes or are cheap up-mixes with surround simulation – this is no way to entice music listeners to move to a new high-resolution format based on Blu-ray technology.
(* here we speak about dynamic compression and NOT data compression! Please be aware about the difference)
It has been already proofed by academic reseaches that there is no correlation between loudness and sales. There is a proven tendency that compression is limiting commercial success. The idea of over-compressed music leading to sales is only a widespread myth. The truth is: loud sells less."
Loudspeakers from Abyss
The practice of radio DJ's putting their entire shows onto their IPOD's is another insidious inroad for the end of quality music. Right now someone is playing Bob Marley in the worst for crap MP3's. Those original Island LP's were almost reference quality at times. 
I am calling bull here - why should any artist make his/her music available to anybody without proper remuneration?
Does an artist have an obligation to produce value for nothing?
If an artist provides services for free - why not everybody?
Tell that to the farmer and see where you get your food - grazing in the woods certainly is an option.
Your argument is nothing but self serving to justify acquiring property without payment - stealing for short.
However, the folks who actually have skin in the game disagree.😀
Wahooooo! Free concert tickets!!!!!
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