Commercial "Tribute" to the Frugel-Horn?

klykx

Member
2006-05-19 12:57 pm
This thread a split-off from http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/164519-frugal-horn-build-2.html :cop:

If you do't want to build them it seems that there is a price for a pair of frugal horns and a tapped horn sub at this place....6moons industry features: Ring Audio's FGH 1.4

the resemblance is remarkable! Is ring audio somebody on diyaudio?

ring-All03.jpg
 
Ah, the plot thickens; that's much longer than the previous ad. on 6moons. I've dug out their site too: ring-audio

For reference, to the best of my knowledge neither Dave nor Chris (the prime Frugel-horn movers & shakers), let alone Ron or myself (peripheral involvement in the FH cabinet) have in any way been contacted about this Ring-Audio design. To be plain, if it is indeed a copy, or heavily based upon the FH (which seems almost 100% certain), then unless they have contacted Dave, Chris or Ron & they forgot to tell me about it, this Ring-Audio box is completely unauthorised and they are not abiding by even the minimal 'use of designs' conditions set out on the Frugal-horn site.

I see that on both their 6moons ad., and their web-pages, Ring-Audio are employing the term 'suprabaffle'; a word I believe that Dave was 'responsible' for popularising, particularly on this forum, thus lending further credence to the idea that this box is at the very least heavily based on the Frugel-Horn. Furthermore, in the 6moons ad, the graphs displaying different baffle responses have clearly been lifted from page 23 of Olson's seminal text 'Acoustical Engineering' which I believe is still under copyright for commercial considerations. That is -if they even bothered to aquire a copy: those self-same graphs are to be found (legally, I hasten to add, as it's non-commercial), on page 17 of the Frugel-horn pdf.

I'll end this little clarification (which I'm sure Dave will delete if I am misinformed. Which I don't believe I am) with a quote from the Ring-Audio website: 'After 20 years of research, we developed speakers of top quality, due to their sound quality as well as their design.'

Yeah. Other people's research, and other people's design.
 
Scott, et al - a few thoughts

- Model name FGH? I mean, WTF - no matter what else you might want to say, these guys have big brass ones

- Spherical supra-baffle as shown, isn't that a bit of a misnomer?

- you're quite right that no conversations or negotiations preceded the co-opting of the design by the Croats.

-are these not the same folks who recently published photos of internal details that looked liked they could have been lifted from the FrugalHorn assembly manual? (gallery pics from the frugal-horn site)

[IMGDEAD]http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/images-fh/goran-L3-frugel-horn.jpg[/IMGDEAD] [IMGDEAD]http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/images-fh/goran-L3-frugel-horns.jpg[/IMGDEAD]

- Has anyone relayed this matter to Srajan's attention? He's been more than a bit sensitive to these types of shenanigans in the past.
 
- Model name FGH? I mean, WTF - no matter what else you might want to say, these guys have big brass ones.

To suggest it's 'blatant' would be an understatement.

- Spherical supra-baffle as shown, isn't that a bit of a misnomer?

Spherical = good. Providing it's big enough. Which it certainly does not appear to be. They appear to have mistaken ripple caused by edge diffraction for step-loss, or at least, need to clarify their terminology. To say nothing of clarifying where their design came from.


- you're quite right that no conversations or negotiations preceded the co-opting of the design by the Croats.

There you go, guys...

-are these not the same folks who recently published photos of internal details that looked liked they could have been lifted from the FrugalHorn assembly manual?

I might have missed that one, but it doesn't sound unlikely. Got a link? Every little extra bit of evidence will help.

- Has anyone relayed this matter to Srajan's attention? He's been more than a bit sensitive to these types of shenanigans in the past.

Not AFAIK; I certainly haven't -yet. But I'm fairly certain Srajan will have a short way of dealing with the ad. etc. & may even make some investigations of his own -he's a decent bloke.

Oh well, methinks it's time for Scott to get on the blower to him. :(
 
Not AFAIK; I certainly haven't -yet. But I'm fairly certain Srajan will have a short way of dealing with the ad. etc. & may even make some investigations of his own -he's a decent bloke.

Oh well, methinks it's time for Scott to get on the blower to him. :(


well, it might be no surprise that this got me exercised enough to e-mail him directly myself, along of course with links to the FH site

as you say, "Sir John" as his compatriots affectionately call him, has dealt with similar situations recently - the next few days should be interesting

cheers


as for the
-are these not the same folks who recently published photos of internal details that looked liked they could have been lifted from the FrugalHorn assembly manual?
I might have missed that one, but it doesn't sound unlikely. Got a link? Every little extra bit of evidence will help.


I was probably thinking of:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/78581-frugel-horn-project-110.html#post2022114

perhaps it's just a coincidence that the rather slickly produced photo in the Frugel-horn DIY builder's gallery was of Croatian origin?


perhaps a senior's moment on my part - and not to be the last!
 
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Dave, Scott, and Chris,

I was just telling a friend about how ridiculous this is. I was looking back over the PDF that Dave made. The pdf is very through and I cannot believe that Ring-Audio is calling the FGH 1.4 the version that has the deflector. To all of you and ron (who I haven't seen online in a while) I hope that you get what you deserve. The Frugel Horn was not a quick and easy project to design. And I think this picture is really the icing on the cake with "development by..." Good luck fellas.

Josh

11.jpg
 
Yep: guys; take a gander at the 2nd picture Chris posted. As in, around the binding posts. Pay particular attention to the metal mounting plate behind them, and the lettering on it. Do mine eyes decieve me, or doth that not read 'FGH?' That's on the gallery on the Frugal-horn site, and has been for some considerable time, courtesy of Goran, in Zagreb, Croatia. http://www.frugal-horn.com/gallery.html

Call me a cynic if you like gentlemen, but I stopped believing in coincidences some years ago. Short of taking a bandsaw to one, that's about the last piece of confirmation required. At present, I'm sure I speak for Dave & Chris (& hopefully Ron too) when I say that our main concern at this time is to ensure Martin gets his due, if this is indeed what we are now 99% sure it is.

For reference BTW, 9,500 Euros at the time of my posting converts to:
£8,220.95UK
$12,545.58US
$12,684.07CAD.

Temporarily leaving aside the question of whether this is a mildly warmed over FH with a sphere stuck on the top, no speaker with the FE108ESigma is worth that kind of money. It's a nice little driver, but that's laughable. Granted, speakers are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them, but according to Joe Cohen's Prana Wire website, you could buy a pair of Cain & Cain (Lovecraft Designs since Terry's tragic passing) range-topping Studio BEN ES double-horns with FE208ESigma + supertweeters for less than that.
 
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Dave, plucked from your site. I hope they have the decency to follow through. That is if they sell any.

"You are free to build it for your own use or commercially. Builders are encouraged to contribute at least feedback to help improve & fine-tune the Frugel-Horn. Commercial builders are encouraged to contribute back to the community whether it be support to keep this site running, to aid/contribute to a DIY/audio forum, to help promote DIY audio (eg co-op with a school shop to teach kids speaker building) ..."
 
And I think this picture is really the icing on the cake with "development by..." Good luck fellas.

Josh

11.jpg

Thanks for that Josh... that pretty much nails it. The pics Chris linked to are of dr. Goran Tomljenović's FGH (from my correspondance)... "first time Frugel-Horn here in Zagreb" July 26, 2006. Goran is not an uncommon name in Croatia, but that coupled with the FGH model...

At least the sticker does not lie... development by, not design by.

Attached is a higher rez image of the plate on the back of the horns in the FH gallery.

dave
 

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. Short of taking a bandsaw to one, that's about the last piece of confirmation required.


well actually, Scott, short of a re-sawing band saw, I could "imagine" that a router and mortising bit might work too

Of course it would take more time, and make a helluva mess, but would leave a surgically clean surface upon which to laminate a new side panel and reveneer the box.

just imagining, I'm saying....
 
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