CLIO Pocket, CLIO or LCR meter

h3ndrix

Member
2006-09-24 5:10 pm
Hello ppl,

I have a question for owners of CLIO Pocket or CLIO System. I currently have funds to buy a measurement system but, also thinking about buying a decent LCR meter. A good LCR meter costs about upwards of $1200 (something that can do frequency sweep up to 100khz with a precision of 0.05% and display it on MS Excel) and considering how much the CLIO or event the CLIO Pocket costs, I need to learn about its LCR meter function.

-How critical is it to have a good LCR meter (vs CLIO) for speaker building (including xovers), amp building ?
-Is the LCR meter in the CLIO Pocket or CLIO sufficient enough?
-What is essential in the CLIO package that is missing from CLIO Pocket and that can not be implemented with future firmware/software updates (I know that they plan to do more updates on its functionality as time passes)?

Thank you.
 
The important part of any measurement is repeatability. I bought a £15 tester and have a selection of new 1% capacitors. They all read 2% high in value and regardless of when I test them, they read the same, so does the ESR. So, knowing that it reads 2% high, everytime, I can easily correlate my measurements and be fairly accurate. Why would anyone require 0.05% accuracy in a crossover? The loudspeakers are the weak link and they will definitely not be anywhere near 5% matching, let alone 0.05%, at most frequencies! Don't waste your money when there is no need.
 
Thanks for the reply...but...hmmm...how do you get to know that it reads 2% higher? I mean what is the point of reference, is it just the markings on the caps? Thanks.
Just the markings on the caps? The markings is the value of the component.
By knowing the value of known close tolerance components and subtracting the absolute known value from the read value. There is your difference and that will calculate to the tolerance and you can easily convert it to a usable figure that is repeatable with good accuracy.
 
I can't comment on the CLIO, but I have been nursing along an old LAUD loudspeaker/FFT system for 18 years. I prefer the measurement approach used by system like LAUD and CLIO for measuring capacitance and inductance over an LCR meter. The best thing you can say about the LCR meter is that most work quickly in both setup and measurement. Convenient.

Assuming that CLIO measures in a similar way to LAUD, you will have more data and a good visual sense of component measurements. In LAUD, I can get a measurement of complex impedance at a desired frequency. Plus, you will be able to measure and use both sound level and impedance measurements of speakers (in box and raw) which will help you develop better speakers.

In my opinion, the CLIO approach is much more valuable than the LCR meter.

Jac
 

SY

diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
2002-10-24 10:19 pm
Chicagoland
www.SYclotron.com
-How critical is it to have a good LCR meter (vs CLIO) for speaker building (including xovers), amp building ?
-Is the LCR meter in the CLIO Pocket or CLIO sufficient enough?
-What is essential in the CLIO package that is missing from CLIO Pocket and that can not be implemented with future firmware/software updates (I know that they plan to do more updates on its functionality as time passes)?

1. If you are doing passive crossovers, it is very useful to have a good LCR meter.
2. Yes, very much so.
3. The Pocket has nearly all the "essential" features for home speaker design and optimization. The latest updates include polar pattern, which to me was the only significant missing feature. The full-blown package has a lot of nice-to-have features, but the Pocket covers the essentials.
 

forr

Member
2004-12-01 6:46 pm
Next door
Hi,
I own a Clio Pocket. Until now, I found the measurements of drivers impedance repetitively consistent. More than my formely Smith & Larson's WtPro.
However I am quite disappointed with the software which is not very ergonomic and much less powerful that WtPro. This part of the product needs to be enhanced a lot to have a real commercial attractiveness.
 

h3ndrix

Member
2006-09-24 5:10 pm
I did follow the CLIP Pocket thread and from all the answers I see that its essentiallya good system. However, I am still in doubt about CLIO Pocket's ability to match a good LCR meter. I have a friends thats willing to give me a NF zm2372 LCR meter (spec sheet) for 900 bucks and it can do milli ohms as well.

From SY's answer I see that a good LCR Meter is important but SY also states that the CLIO pockets LCR Meter is good enough. But I guess I am having a hard time believing that a 600 dollar device can measure LCR values as well as a 3500 dollar device...
 

forr

Member
2004-12-01 6:46 pm
Next door
Interesting- I thought the software was very easy to use and intuitive. What things have you found difficult or clumsy?

I did not use it since some monthes so I will limit my comments to the main criticisms I retain :

- access to the menu going through the icon at top left :
why three operations ( icon -> menu -> command )
where the standard two operations ( menu -> command )
are so much comfortable and faster ?

- the icon "Clio pocket options"
it should better belong to a standard menu.

- to the maths
I did not use the function but it seems to work with files and not directly with the overlays.

- the verticale scale

I would like the possibility of disconnection of its command by the mouse wheel.

All this could be easily rearranged in future updates.
A main menu should be the first, most wellcome, enhancement (without submenus, please, they present a waste of time when there is room to avoid them)
and then mathematical operations directly on the overlays.

The hardware certainly desserves a more handy graphical user interface.
When it will have it, the Clio Pocket will be a very attractive product.

Regards.
 
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If all you are after is LCR values or impedance curves in the audio frequency range, I think your best bet would be to get a WooferTest2, WT3, or Dayton DATS system. About $100 new, maybe half that used if you find one. And it will measure and calculate Thiele/Small parameters of woofers, too, which is very good to have for loudspeaker work. Quick, cheap, accurate, and easy. You don't need to measure to 100kHz for speaker work (nor to 1%, though the DATS will typically get you to that).
 

forr

Member
2004-12-01 6:46 pm
Next door
If all you are after is LCR values or impedance curves in the audio frequency range, I think your best bet would be to get a WooferTest2, WT3, or Dayton DATS system. About $100 new, maybe half that used if you find one. And it will measure and calculate Thiele/Small parameters of woofers, too, which is very good to have for loudspeaker work. Quick, cheap, accurate, and easy. You don't need to measure to 100kHz for speaker work (nor to 1%, though the DATS will typically get you to that).

WooferTester uses 1 and 2 Hz signals to estimate the DC resistance of the voice coil. I hade less constant results with it than with Clio which uses pure DC.

By the way, Clio Pocket has a new software version : 1.41
 
But I guess I am having a hard time believing that a 600 dollar device can measure LCR values as well as a 3500 dollar device...

Depends what you mean by 'better' - there's no point in measuring things to greater accuracy than the 'real world' requires. A 600 dollar device is probably already far too expensive for sensible needs, and a 3500 dollar one is just wasting an extra 2900 dollars.

As you're talking about speakers, there's little need for accuracy as they are very inaccurate devices.