Ciare HW161N thoughts/opinions

[montana1]

Hi to All,
I'm in the process of building 2 way floorstanders (approx. 24 L) and would like to get some feedback on this particular driver.
1. Is it biased toward midrange response?
2. How is overall build quality?
3. Is it a good choice for this size cabinet/ build type?
4. Any other impressions good or bad are welcome.

My initial thoughts are to pair this driver (or one similar) with the Seas 27TDFC tweeter and crossover around 2khz. So, looking at drivers with sensitivity (90db. SPL) that will mate well with that tweeter. Bass performance is important in this build but I will be adding 15 woofers in separate enclosures for phase 2 of project. Hopefully, I have provided enough information to get things rolling. If not, I will follow up with added info as requested. Attached is product information on this driver. Thanks in Advance!


Best Regards,
Rich

 

[TMM]

That ~5dB cone breakup dip around 1.4kHz will need special crossover work to hide in a 2-way. The T/S parameters for that driver aren't ideal for a 24Litre sealed enclosure. Fs is too high, Vas is too low for that size enclosure so you'll get a very lean bass response - F3 is at 95Hz. If you run a ported enclosure they do a bit better - 15Litres ported at 50Hz gets you can F3 of 51Hz, but I would shy away from running ported since they are harder to integrate well with a subwoofer. The impedance rising to 40ohms at 20kHz is a sign of a simpler motor design - thus, distortion may not be exceptional in the upper midrange where you want to use it in a 2-way.

I would recommend you look toward the Dayton Audio RS180-8. 24Litres happens to be the ideal sealed enclosure size, giving an F3 of 59Hz. Midrange distortion is known to be low, and the breakup that occurs >1kHz is well controlled enough to be managable for a 2-way. Sensitivity by TS parameters is quoted at 87dB but if you look at the actual frequency response measurement in the datasheet rather than the theoretical SPL calculated from the T/S parameters you find it is even more sensitive through the midrange than the Ciare driver - Dayton approx 89dB SPL, Ciare approx 87.5dB.

 

[peterbrorsson]

This driver was tested in HobbyHifi 2012, qts was measured to 0.57, Fs 63Hz, vas 12L. Not very accurate specs. They recommended also not to bring it higher than 1kHz.
Scanspeak 18W/8434G00 cost the same here in Europe with better specs.

Peter

 

[picowallspeaker]

mmmhh recently I read on an italian forum about perfecting some troublesome Ciare kit ( ciare h 04.1 ) ...most ciare kits are not the ultimate as they are.
So eventually the 161 ended in substituing the 162 - the final response was " much more refined in the midrange". WHich is quite the opposite to say " not useful above 1 kHz"
H 04.1 design probably has a 10 "
A 15 " is overly exagerated

 

[montana1]

Thanks Guys,
I will take a look at those 2 driver suggestions and scratch the Ciare from consideration. The sealed enclosure recommendation is interesting to me since this is my first diy project. I modeled the Dayton RS180-8 in WinISD and it looks like a very solid choice. It is down 3db at approximately 90 hz. The sub would fill in frequencies below that range. I'm not familiar with the Scanspeak that Peter suggested, but will look up specs and model that one too.

Best Regards,
Rich

 

[montana1]

Thanks Picowallspeaker,
That added information supports Peter's comments about the inaccuracies of the Ciare specifications. I will continue the search for a 6.5- 7 inch driver that will be a star performer. I would like to keep cost around $80 or less. This forum is without question the best there is! Your response is much appreciated.

Best Regards,
Rich

 

[Zuhl]

Here's a nice easy driver to work with H1571-08 U18RNX/P

 

[montana1]

Thanks Zuhl,
That looks like another great driver suggestion.


Best Regards,
Rich

 

[peterbrorsson]

Well, I trust this magazine more than comments written in internet, even my own;o) Ciare have a much better 6 inch driver and following the factory specs within 20%, but I'm not home right now. Can't remember the model....

Anyway, if the quality control is out of whack. It doesn't matter what is written objectively or measured, there will be differing opinions and measurements.

Peter

PS: Come to think about it, objectively, it will be wildly different opinions no matter of measurements)) Muhahahhhhaaaaa!

 

[montana1]

Thanks Peter,
I was looking at Troels Gravensen's W18 build using the driver you recommended. He seemed to think very highly of the overall performance. Especially, using it in the stepped baffle design. My enclosure's would not be identical but could work out all the same.

Best Regards,
Rich

 

[montana1]

I meant to type the Discovery 18 speaker from Troels Gravensen.


Best Regards,
Rich

 

[montana1]

Here is my Xsim crossover attempt for the Discovery W18 using the drivers Troels listed in his build. I'm very new to this crossover schematic stuff. Am I on the right track? The files for Xsim were gathered using SplTrace. My goals are to design a crossover that on paper will yield very good listening results until I can acquire testing equipment to tweak the system. The crossovers will be housed outside the enclosures for ease in later tweaking as required. Any help given is very much appreciated! Attached is the before mentioned files from Xsim.


Best Regards,
Rich

 

[montana1]

I'll start a new thread with regards to above post. Disregard responding in this thread.


Thanks,
Rich