Could I just run this setup full range or will I get distorition on the high and low ends of my drivers without cutting the signal to them?
Looks like the speakers are matched up super well. I have to run two Tang W5s but at least I don't have to run any crossovers I don't think
Will this create a cleaner sound since there's no knockdown?
Ps: I won't actually run this in parallel. I will run individual channels to the sets of drivers. One channel for the woofers, one for the tweeters and 3.5". That brings the ohm loads to 4 ohms accross the board
Looks like the speakers are matched up super well. I have to run two Tang W5s but at least I don't have to run any crossovers I don't think
Will this create a cleaner sound since there's no knockdown?
Ps: I won't actually run this in parallel. I will run individual channels to the sets of drivers. One channel for the woofers, one for the tweeters and 3.5". That brings the ohm loads to 4 ohms accross the board
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I think it may help to get a better picture of your situation if you set up the plot area. Here's an example - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/xsim-configuring-the-plot-window.406106/
Where did you get the data that you are using in your simulator? I find it hard to believe that just adding up some drivers in parallel will give you that response...
Typically the tweeter will not be happy when it is not high passed. In the good old days, this was only a capacitor, but feeding the full audio range to your tweeter, with its teeny tiny voice coil, will likely result not only in distortion but in the voice coil heating up and the tweeter burning out. The other drivers would survive just fine, however.
Also, as mentioned above, you need to plot the system impedance and take a good look at it. With all of the drivers in parallel (four in your design) the impedance will be lower than any one driver. For example, if the drivers were like resistors, four in parallel is one fourth the impedance. Can your amplifier operate safely into that (low impedance) load?
Typically the tweeter will not be happy when it is not high passed. In the good old days, this was only a capacitor, but feeding the full audio range to your tweeter, with its teeny tiny voice coil, will likely result not only in distortion but in the voice coil heating up and the tweeter burning out. The other drivers would survive just fine, however.
Also, as mentioned above, you need to plot the system impedance and take a good look at it. With all of the drivers in parallel (four in your design) the impedance will be lower than any one driver. For example, if the drivers were like resistors, four in parallel is one fourth the impedance. Can your amplifier operate safely into that (low impedance) load?
Please show the separately measured pathes of your drivers, without it is hard to see what is going on. It could be that there a cancellations when the frequency responses are overlapped for the on-axis-response, but there are massive boost out of axis. As mentioned, what is the resulting impedance? And I would at least spend a capacitor to protect the tweeter from too high power out-of-band.
If you want to burn the tweeter or amplifier...we should take bets what burns first.Could I just run this setup full range or will I get distorition on the high and low ends of my drivers without cutting the signal to them?
Looks like the speakers are matched up super well. I have to run two Tang W5s but at least I don't have to run any crossovers I don't think
Will this create a cleaner sound since there's no knockdown?View attachment 1243204
In multiway its a crossover which protects tweeter from overexcursion from low frequencies. Paralleling multiple drivers lowers resulting impedance.
Please hook it up and report back what survived.
I was thinking or running independent channels to each driver to keep the ohm load down. I wouldn't actually run them in parallel.Where did you get the data that you are using in your simulator? I find it hard to believe that just adding up some drivers in parallel will give you that response...
Typically the tweeter will not be happy when it is not high passed. In the good old days, this was only a capacitor, but feeding the full audio range to your tweeter, with its teeny tiny voice coil, will likely result not only in distortion but in the voice coil heating up and the tweeter burning out. The other drivers would survive just fine, however.
Also, as mentioned above, you need to plot the system impedance and take a good look at it. With all of the drivers in parallel (four in your design) the impedance will be lower than any one driver. For example, if the drivers were like resistors, four in parallel is one fourth the impedance. Can your amplifier operate safely into that (low impedance) load?
What cap do you suggest I toss in there for the tweeter?
See my edit in original postWhen you connect so many drivers in parallel, what is the resulting impedance?
So you want to just split signal in three and run three amps? Without active crossover?
Running tweeter full range all the way down to bass? Well, that may not burn amp, but tweeter for sure.
Yes, you need protecting cap.
Running tweeter full range all the way down to bass? Well, that may not burn amp, but tweeter for sure.
Yes, you need protecting cap.
I saw.See my edit in original post
In addition to the protection of the tweeter from mid and low frequencies, you will also have acoustic lobbing (hills and holes in the response) due to the distance of the drivers and the large mutual overlap. So an active crossover is still a better plan for that. What exactly are the drivers? If you have some small drivers with a high Fr, you will have a lot of distortion when you feed them low frequencies. And that's where at least the protective capacitor (1st order crossover) goes.
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Here are the drivers. I added a cap as you all suggested. I think I made a mistake as these woofers are 4 ohm so if I run them in parallel off of one channel it will run at 2 ohm. That isn't going to work with my receiver I don't think.... will have to dig into the specs and see.
woofers- https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-...per-Cone-Subwoofer-Speaker-264-917?quantity=1
3.5" - https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...m-Cone-Full-Range-Driver-8-290-226?quantity=1
tweeter - https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DC28F-8-1-1-8-Silk-Dome-Tweeter-275-070?quantity=1
attached is graph of frequency response with the cap. Actually filled in a little hole pretty well.
woofers- https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-...per-Cone-Subwoofer-Speaker-264-917?quantity=1
3.5" - https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...m-Cone-Full-Range-Driver-8-290-226?quantity=1
tweeter - https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DC28F-8-1-1-8-Silk-Dome-Tweeter-275-070?quantity=1
attached is graph of frequency response with the cap. Actually filled in a little hole pretty well.
Attachments
That's too big for a tweeter capacitor.
Find a finished project with a Dayton 28mm tweeter and a 6.5" or 8" midbass. And it will be incomparably better than what you came up with.
Find a finished project with a Dayton 28mm tweeter and a 6.5" or 8" midbass. And it will be incomparably better than what you came up with.
Why though? I want to learn to how to design my own. That is the fun here. I am an electrical engineer. I can learn
Why is the capacitor too big? I can make it smaller but it flattens the Fr best right at that size. Is there a limit?
Why is the capacitor too big? I can make it smaller but it flattens the Fr best right at that size. Is there a limit?
It is too big because it allows too much movement of the membrane.Why is the capacitor too big?
Why is the capacitor too big
Normal practice for a tweeter is to set the cross point 1-2 octaves above resonance (Fs). This is highly tweeter and crossover slope dependent, so the rules are a bit squishy. In Xsim, there are CircuitBlocks that will generate standard values. Those can help you figure out rational starting points for crossovers. They can also be separated into independent parts and adjusted individually, which is often needed in practice.
Near resonance, it's normal for distortion to increase rapidly in a tweeter. There's no practical way to get around this other than to attenuate that part with the crossover.
This is a good site where you can look at a bunch of tweeters tested the same way. Distortion is discussed/plotted for each of them.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/
Also, XSim3d will let you look at polar response so you can investigate off-axis behavior.
It seems like your initial attempts at this have focused solely on frequency response of the combined system. That's only one piece of the puzzle in making a good speaker.
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Using the factory frd and zma leads to wrong simulations and conclusions. That all changes when the speaker is placed in the box and on the front panel.
That mini FR driver can't do low frequencies, it has to be cut with the crossover.
That mini FR driver can't do low frequencies, it has to be cut with the crossover.
I don't know where you got the idea you could design a three way without a crossover.
If you use separate amplifiers, then use an active crossover. Easy peasy. A capacitor in series with the tweeter is an extra measure of protection for the tweeter. I recommend it.
You need to learn the relationship between xmax, frequency vs excursion, and power vs excursion. Believe me, you have plenty to learn just to design a competent two-way, judging from your comments.
The best advice hands down so far is to design and build a 6.5" or 8" two way. Build a two way.
If you use separate amplifiers, then use an active crossover. Easy peasy. A capacitor in series with the tweeter is an extra measure of protection for the tweeter. I recommend it.
You need to learn the relationship between xmax, frequency vs excursion, and power vs excursion. Believe me, you have plenty to learn just to design a competent two-way, judging from your comments.
The best advice hands down so far is to design and build a 6.5" or 8" two way. Build a two way.
Concur with adding a protection cap between amp/tweeter even with an active crossover. I have active 4-way and 3-way and both systems get a cap before tweeter to avoid thump killing the tweeter. Tweeters are actually kind of fragile, well depending on the tweeter.
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