Saw this image in another thread. That looks like a cool way to build a speakers in layers like that. If you didn't have a lot of precise tools, it might actually be easy to build one template and then use a router to but the final shape of each strip.
Anyone know of any plans online for an enclosure like that?
Anyone know of any plans online for an enclosure like that?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It can be done with a cnc router or mill, if you have one (or put the 'ware on your existing machine), and have the 'ware to generate the cut. In hobby and small-shop practice, it's more often done with a router pattern, or even a jigsaw and a little elbow grease.
I object to it because, unless we are very clever with design and layout, it's extremely profligate of material; our waste pile is going to be twice the size of our piece pile. That said, it is one of the very few practical ways of getting certain shapes, like horns, without a great deal of time and skill.
I like kerf bending for a lot of this sort of work myself, but that method is not without it's shortcomings as well.
Aloha,
Poinz
I object to it because, unless we are very clever with design and layout, it's extremely profligate of material; our waste pile is going to be twice the size of our piece pile. That said, it is one of the very few practical ways of getting certain shapes, like horns, without a great deal of time and skill.
I like kerf bending for a lot of this sort of work myself, but that method is not without it's shortcomings as well.
Aloha,
Poinz
search on translam or layertoning (the last a word i coined after Tony's moniker which as of the latest aXP (IIRC) is now officially part of the lexicon).
You can see examples of Tony's brilliant work on the Full range forum, and Andy Graddon has a part of his site dedicated to boxes that aren't monkey coffins -- a number of those translam construction.
dave
PS: i have the same objection as poinz... and if not done in a considered fashion you can end up with a box that doesn't have as good a sonic signature as a box made the old fashioned way.
You can see examples of Tony's brilliant work on the Full range forum, and Andy Graddon has a part of his site dedicated to boxes that aren't monkey coffins -- a number of those translam construction.
dave
PS: i have the same objection as poinz... and if not done in a considered fashion you can end up with a box that doesn't have as good a sonic signature as a box made the old fashioned way.
And again, the aspect ratio of the mouth really need correction for proper wave launch.
ron
( i may be slow , but i am steady)
ron
( i may be slow , but i am steady)
I think someone made a frugal horn in that method, I had it for my wallpaper for a while.
It's not for the faint-hearted KVK, it takes a lot of wood and work and it's going to be damn heavy.
Personally I love the look of it and a set of curvy changs in plywood made like that would be glorious. I don't trust myself not to change my mind about what cabinets I want so I'm not game to start.
It's not for the faint-hearted KVK, it takes a lot of wood and work and it's going to be damn heavy.
Personally I love the look of it and a set of curvy changs in plywood made like that would be glorious. I don't trust myself not to change my mind about what cabinets I want so I'm not game to start.
Nice design - could be fun to build a pair like this just wonder why the designer have made this combination of nice curves and sharp edges ?
kvk said:
This would be the ultimate way to make it. However, it is also the ultimate requirement for materials, since there is so much wastage. Don't know how may sheets of MDF you will need, but it will be a goodly number, IMO.
kvk said:
These would clearly be very wasteful if each slice was a full profile, but don't I see joint lines in the picture that indicate the slices are built up from smaller pieces? With a good layout, I'd think a CNC could cut that all out pretty efficiently. I don't think I'd try it with a router and template.
please do not be mislead by an appealing CAD image.
Probably, in this example, only the curved elements are designed as laminations. This is not wasteful of material as CNC post processors are excellent at nesting shapes with very high %age yield: it's one of their main selling features. For you and me at home with a jigsaw, a hacksaw, an axe, yes it is wasteful of material!
Generally, in plywoods, curved elements like these as modeled are inherently structurally unsound: many will break in handling due to how the bias plys are cut short, and they will differentially relax their shape when cut from the sheet and be difficult to align for laminating. It can be done successfully, but requires aligned cuts with the wood ply orientation.
From this image I can tell you what CAD program it was done in, how the material properties, textures, decal and one button rendering were applied, and that it was done by a 'student' of both the program and speaker design as it shows a direct 3D CAD transliteration of very common designs expressed as 'hey, wouldn't be cool if..." However, to be fair, maybe it was a quick exercise done by somebody for somebody else, to illustrate a point, etc.
If you have these powerful tools, why not create something new?
Probably, in this example, only the curved elements are designed as laminations. This is not wasteful of material as CNC post processors are excellent at nesting shapes with very high %age yield: it's one of their main selling features. For you and me at home with a jigsaw, a hacksaw, an axe, yes it is wasteful of material!
Generally, in plywoods, curved elements like these as modeled are inherently structurally unsound: many will break in handling due to how the bias plys are cut short, and they will differentially relax their shape when cut from the sheet and be difficult to align for laminating. It can be done successfully, but requires aligned cuts with the wood ply orientation.
From this image I can tell you what CAD program it was done in, how the material properties, textures, decal and one button rendering were applied, and that it was done by a 'student' of both the program and speaker design as it shows a direct 3D CAD transliteration of very common designs expressed as 'hey, wouldn't be cool if..." However, to be fair, maybe it was a quick exercise done by somebody for somebody else, to illustrate a point, etc.
If you have these powerful tools, why not create something new?
There *are* folks out there who build cabinets this way (usually MDF or a cheap hardwood like Red Oak, which despite the grand sounding name is practically a weed ;-) Recently, I'm one of them. Have a look through a few of the full range driver galleries here and elsewhere... can't remember where I saw it most recently, but it was in the past few days...
As for aligning the layers, you use CNCed holes and dowels. People see the dowels and think it's for strength... nope, it's only for alignment. The cross-grain dowelling is actually a strength liability, not advantage.
Anyway, we'll see how well/long they last. Folks who use MDF usually report it delaminating and splitting after five to ten years. For that reason I use red oak (the problem with oak, though, is large dimensional changes with humidity. We'll find out how durable the laminated joints are after another ten years or so....)
As for waste, it's relative. If I was paying myself minimum wage, I'd still be spending ten times more on labor than on the wood in an average build. The oak waste is good for other things... if it's too small to reuse, you can always grill some steaks over it.
As for aligning the layers, you use CNCed holes and dowels. People see the dowels and think it's for strength... nope, it's only for alignment. The cross-grain dowelling is actually a strength liability, not advantage.
Anyway, we'll see how well/long they last. Folks who use MDF usually report it delaminating and splitting after five to ten years. For that reason I use red oak (the problem with oak, though, is large dimensional changes with humidity. We'll find out how durable the laminated joints are after another ten years or so....)
As for waste, it's relative. If I was paying myself minimum wage, I'd still be spending ten times more on labor than on the wood in an average build. The oak waste is good for other things... if it's too small to reuse, you can always grill some steaks over it.
magico's laminating layers of laminate
I would think laminates would go a long way toward limiting any harmonic vibrations. But the sides of the cabinet referenced in the original post could foul the final product.
Magico's Mini speakers take the laminate method to an extreme. Now how does one fit this concept to a full range horn?
First post . . . hope it works.
rick
I would think laminates would go a long way toward limiting any harmonic vibrations. But the sides of the cabinet referenced in the original post could foul the final product.
Magico's Mini speakers take the laminate method to an extreme. Now how does one fit this concept to a full range horn?
First post . . . hope it works.
rick
It probably wouldn't be much waste at all, in fact.
If someone has the DXF or DWG files (and it's not copyrighted), I could nest them in my CNC software and tell you exactly how much material it would take to cut the job.
You could do it out of stacked MDF, and I don't think it would split apart unless you dropped the speaker.
However, I would choose baltic birch in this application, and it still wouldn't break the bank.
Cheers
If someone has the DXF or DWG files (and it's not copyrighted), I could nest them in my CNC software and tell you exactly how much material it would take to cut the job.
You could do it out of stacked MDF, and I don't think it would split apart unless you dropped the speaker.
However, I would choose baltic birch in this application, and it still wouldn't break the bank.
Cheers
Daygloworange said:
I've never worked with that... How well does it bond? I'm used to the American birches being a real p.i.t.a. in terms of good glue penetration.
Re: Re: Cabinet in layers
I'm not so sure about that. You are using the material in its weakest direction.
The ultimate way (using wood) would likely be to make plywood in the curvy shape by pressure moulding layers of veneer.
Even better would be to grow the structure with nanobots in zero gravity.
The 1st is doable but not easy, the 2nd still needs a bit of underlying development.
dave
John L said:
I'm not so sure about that. You are using the material in its weakest direction.
The ultimate way (using wood) would likely be to make plywood in the curvy shape by pressure moulding layers of veneer.
Even better would be to grow the structure with nanobots in zero gravity.
The 1st is doable but not easy, the 2nd still needs a bit of underlying development.
dave
I'd just like to reitterate the point Ron made about this particular box (whatever it is): it's not an especially good design, from an acoustic, rather than a material POV. There are better enclosures out there.
xiphmont said:
I meant stacking baltic birch plywood in a translam type construction rather than MDF.
Cheers
guys,
I made these in '97...
Actually I made 2 sets, the first one from cheap particle board, the set on the photo was mdf.
I used fostex FE108Sigma's as drivers.
Making a set resulted in an enormous amount of sawdust and strange pieces of scrap board.
Worth the effort? I actually don't think so, the sphere was a great idea, but I think the parallel sides completely ruin the positive effect of the smooth horn extension.
regards, Peter
I made these in '97...
Actually I made 2 sets, the first one from cheap particle board, the set on the photo was mdf.
I used fostex FE108Sigma's as drivers.
Making a set resulted in an enormous amount of sawdust and strange pieces of scrap board.
Worth the effort? I actually don't think so, the sphere was a great idea, but I think the parallel sides completely ruin the positive effect of the smooth horn extension.
regards, Peter
Attachments
- Status
- Not open for further replies.