Boss D10F Phantom - good for WAW / FAST?

[xrk971]

I just ran across this subwoofer from the car audio world. Look at its specs and tell me if this just isn't perfect to make a simple 0.5 cu ft sealed box to hit 56Hz easy with lots of SPL to be the bass unit in a FAST system. With 94dB sensitivity, you can afford to give up even a full -6dB to baffle step loss and be at 88dB to match with several nice high end 3.5in to 4in full range drivers for the tops. ScanSpeak 10F, many Fostex's, B80, etc. For $41 seems like a total bargain. Anyhow just putting this out there in case anyone is interested in trying it out as it is dead simple 14 liter sealed box and run a XO at circa 300Hz to 500Hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/265-376-boss-audio-systems-d10f-manual.PDF

(perhaps some black paint can be used to make the cone easier on the eyes?)

 

[xrk971]

These are also available on Amazon for $36. Free shipping if you are Prime. Just ordered one to test out. The reviews on Amazon are quite positive.

 

[GM]

Yeah, spec wise it reminds me of the cheap AS woofers Sony and others made for their small stereo systems, early boomboxes. Still got a pair of 1975 Sony co-ax mobile audio/boombox 'full-range' drivers with near enough identical specs [at least when they were measured decades ago].

These are the kind of drivers I used a lot to make cheap tower/column/MLTL speakers for apt. dwellers, college dorms, etc.. I wish similar quality/specs/pricing was still available as they make for a great bang/buck small footprint speaker.

GM

 

[planet10]

The question i'd ask is how high does it go. I also wonder how they get it to go so low in such a small box and still keep the efficiency up near 91 dB/1watt.

You are sure right about it being ugly looking.

dave

 

[xrk971]

We will see how high it goes. I don't have a 0.5 cu ft box ready, but an OB will let us ascertain the upper limit. One nice thing is it is flat which may be useful for a down firing invisible sub crossed below 100Hz.

The frame is aluminum alloy which is surprising at this price point. I think Boss is a subsidiary of Roland who actually make nice stuff.

It gets here in a few days and we will se if this pans out.

 

[chrisb]

in car audio, nothing is too gaudy or pretentious

 

[planet10]

I think Boss is a subsidiary of Roland who actually make nice stuff.

They do. My last Firewire DAC was an Edirol (Roland) and a real bargain. They do make a lot of stuff so there is room for quality variation.

dave

 

[xrk971]

The Boss arrived

I got the driver today, looking at and holding it in my hands it feels well constructed. Nice alloy frame, very shallow profile, nice nickel plated spring terminals, the suspension is very stiff for a woofer, a huge half-roll surround that appears to be molded out of a slightly softer material than the cone but the cone and surround are integral and one continuous piece.

Some photos - looks just like advertised:

Put it up to DATS and many of the TS paramters like Qts, and Vas are better than the factory spec, but the sensitivity is coming in at only 89dB at 2.83v, a far cry from the advertised 94dB. That may in itself be a deal breaker as it was the raison d'etre for this driver.

There is also a very large rising impedance above 100Hz and funny business going on at 200Hz with an impedance peak there.

 

[chrisb]

well, it is a car woofer after all - many denizens of that end of the pool live by a different set of guidelines - you probably need to have an 800watt car amp driving them to get the rated sensitivity - you know, synergy and all that BS

 

[GM]

Good to know, thanks!

GM

 

[xrk971]

So drive at 800w and extrapolate back to 4w for the 2.83v rating?

In car audio land, an 800w amp is really a 250w amp.

 

[xrk971]

1 cu ft box meas

This is a 1 cu ft cardboard box with foam inside to get an idea of the bass extension and also the higher frequency midrange extension.

The measured sensitivity is consistent with DATS prediction of about 89dB, maybe 90dB at 2.83v and 1m. Here is 2.83v minus 6dB at 0.5m for equivalent sensitivity. Also a 5cm nearfield measurement (moved to line up) to show native response without room modes and reflections.

The driver appears to have a 47Hz f3 if we assume that the baseline sensitivity of 90dB.

The sharp dip at 250Hz really limits this driver as a sub woofer and not a woofer. Really not suitable for FAST unless you cross below 200Hz. Although the dip at 250Hz may not be that audible as sharp dips are hard to hear. You may be able to get away with crossing it up higher. The bass as a sub does go pretty deep for only a 1 cu ft box.

 

[chrisb]

So drive at 800w and extrapolate back to 4w for the 2.83v rating?

perhaps the snark was a miscalculation

In car audio land, an 800w amp is really a 250w amp.

 

[Jerms]

Any chance the sensitivity and F3 will change with use or running in?
It's a solid looking thing, and a car oriented thing.... S'pose it might just need oiling?

 

[GM]

In my limited experience, mobile audio drivers never really break-in, just break if abused too much.

GM

 

[xrk971]

Boss (and Amazon) updated their specs to reflect 87dB sensitivity, PE's website still says 94dB.

87dB:
Low Profile Subwoofer, Poly Injection Cone | D10F | Boss Audio Systems

87dB:
Amazon.com: BOSS AUDIO D10F Phantom 10 inch Single Voice Coil (4 Ohm) 800-watt Subwoofer: Car Electronics

94dB:
BOSS D10F Phantom 10" Flat Subwoofer

 

[Jerms]

Use it with some Vifas?

 

[xrk971]

At 87dB, typical; 5dB baffle step loss if not wall mounted so, 82dB in practical sense. A Vifa TC9FD is 85dB so would need padding or a BSC to match. But the upper end falls off abruptly at 200hz so not the best for a FAST. Really, it is a subwoofer below 120Hz would be best. I do like the fact that you can get 50Hz reach with a relatively compact box, albeit, with overshoot. A 1cu ft box may be better. I am stuck with it as I never got around to requesting a return soon enough. It does make a nice power load for testing high power amps. I am working on some 100w and 200w amps now and have no qualms unleashing full power on this thing as it's built like a brick bunker. The cone feels like a stiff poly lid to a 5 gallon can and the surround is a stiff (barely flexible) plastic that is the same as the cone material. I don't think it's possible to damage this below the 400w continuous rating. Getting a 400w power resistor might actually cost about as much or more and doesn't have the excitement of flapping a big woofer when testing an amp for the first time.

 

[hollowboy]

Boss (and Amazon) updated their specs to reflect 87dB sensitivity, PE's website still says 94dB.

87dB:
Low Profile Subwoofer, Poly Injection Cone | D10F | Boss Audio Systems

87dB:
Amazon.com: BOSS AUDIO D10F Phantom 10 inch Single Voice Coil (4 Ohm) 800-watt Subwoofer: Car Electronics

94dB:
BOSS D10F Phantom 10" Flat Subwoofer

I usually check drivers with this calculator.

mh-audio.nl - Home

For the Boss driver, it gives 85.9dB for the Fs 50, VAS of 19.6litres and Qes 0.957

For a more efficient driver (Lowthers), if I punch in Martin King's measurements, it gives results within a fraction of a dB of what he states.

Preliminary Measurements of the Lowther DX Series of Drivers

...so it seems like a pretty good (reasonably accurate) and easy way to confirm advertiser's efficiency claims.