Bookshelf/Desktop ESL's

MeTarzan

Member
2013-03-11 5:52 pm
What is the reason that you don't see any small ESL speakers? Is there a mechanical drawback? Diminishing returns in quality as size decreases? I was looking for a small ESL project to get some hands on experience in order to get a better understanding of the process. Not even looking for something that really sounds great, just something that is small and works. :confused:
 
I just recently completed a set of small panels 12" x 12" to get my feet wet in the ESL realm. They would make fine bookshelf speakers, but certainly need a subwoofer (2.1 type of system). They do not offer room-filling sound levels, but are quite satisfactory for a small room. I'm using them in my office and they do quite well.

Check out Jazzman's DIY Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page
Jazzman's build page for lots of great info.
 

MeTarzan

Member
2013-03-11 5:52 pm
I just recently completed a set of small panels 12" x 12" to get my feet wet in the ESL realm. They would make fine bookshelf speakers, but certainly need a subwoofer (2.1 type of system). They do not offer room-filling sound levels, but are quite satisfactory for a small room. I'm using them in my office and they do quite well.

Check out Jazzman's DIY Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page
Jazzman's build page for lots of great info.

Yah I read your thread and those are very close to something I would like to try. I am really into using cigar boxes for projects and surely have a couple matching boxes around the same square inches I could use for frames. 2.1 for sure if I can actually get some decent sound from the pair. Will reread your thread again. Hope your upgrades turn out well. Thanks for reply.

P.S. Gee Sy, this is a real groovy apartment you've got here...
 
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All I ever build are Desktop ESL's !!
I am surprised you haven't seen them yet !!!

I may be the only one whom has ever done this.
I made my first ESL's as shown in the pictures in 2003.
Here are some of the links to my builds,

A Desktop ESL Build

A Segmented Stator Desktop ESL

The two systems I have shown in the first link can be found in many of the threads here at DIYAudio.

Enjoy !!

jer :)
 
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Bazukaz

Member
2005-11-13 1:55 pm
Vilnius
Hi,

I started my experiments with small panels some years ago.
After I heard them became not statisfied with bass and mid range output.
So next experiments came out larger and larger.What I built at last can cover down to 85 hz or even less but at reduced output.
A small panel can be made to sound well, but you will need to make a hybrid speaker with a cone bass driver and ESL, crossed over lets say between 400 and 1kHz depending on its size.
Building a line source element(lets say, 10x100 cm) would yield good vertical dispersion pattern and acceptable horizontal even from a flat perforated sheet.
A square element with the same area would have somewhat more low end extension but would be extremely directional.

Good luck.
Lukas.
 
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MeTarzan

Member
2013-03-11 5:52 pm
Excellent and thanks for the links. Heading that way to browse now. At this point I would be happy building ESL tweeters! Just want to "do it" before I "DO IT". If they sound well (which would be a bonus to actually just working) I will pair them with a small sub.
 
i was wondering if there was enough interest to create of the shelf panels. with Pcb as stator material. with slots or drilled holes.

i might get me a plate of 1 mm thick 51 cm x 115 and cut some prototypes. in like 10 x 25 cm panels ? for mid and high frequency's ? with some support dots for the foil they could reach down to 300 hz with some efficiency to.
 

MeTarzan

Member
2013-03-11 5:52 pm
i was wondering if there was enough interest to create of the shelf panels. with Pcb as stator material. with slots or drilled holes.

i might get me a plate of 1 mm thick 51 cm x 115 and cut some prototypes. in like 10 x 25 cm panels ? for mid and high frequency's ? with some support dots for the foil they could reach down to 300 hz with some efficiency to.

If you build them, and I can follow along, I think a pair of those would be great for the mids and up with a little 8w tube amp I built. Then I would have a NEED to use an 8" kevlar sub that has been laying around begging for some class D power. Sure would be convenient to use PCB if it works.
 
yeah im thinking of using 0.5 mm pcb board backed with 9 mm thick louvre roster (eggcrate) on one side where the mebrane will be glued on to not let it warp as easy. im still not sure about using slots or holes. anyone has ideas on that department? is welcome. Dc spacing will, be 1mm.
with slots i can easy putt the slots between the squares of the louvre(eggrcrate)...

when i sold my magnepan 1d's and some other loudspeakers i have standing around i will look into it right away!.
 
Hi,

If egg crates are going to be used why not take an advantage of building a wire stator?

1) It does not arc
2) Not difficult to build
3) Dispersion control is relatively straightforward.

Here is an example of small esl test stator, measuring 15x58 cm.

Regards,
Lukas.
 

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I knew I saved that eggcrate for something! Will definitely look into the wire stator approach. At this point I would just be happy to get one panel going for AM/SW/SCANNER radio.

You will need to figure out how to stretch wires.
Some people build stretching jigs. IMO for a first panel nothing too sophisticated is required.
Pulling by hands is not going to work well to straighten them.
A pair of treaded rods can be used to wrap the wires around. Two stators are inserted inside between before doing this. After that threaded rods are pulled apart with high force(lets say some hooks , etc).
The next step is finding suitable glue to bond wires to egg crate, by appliying on top of them. A syringe works well.
It may not be as simple as it seems. Super glue works but unfortunately wire insulation is attacked and compromised, so something else can be experimented with.
One good approach is to make glue yourself by dissolving the same egg crate material in methylene chloride. It will melt into the plastic but does not attack PVC insulation.
I suggest you search for more information, there are a lot of posts about wire stators here.

Hope this helps.
Lukas.
 
welll the egg crate melting and the wires are all aucoustat :) way. the melting is prob even more dificult then just glue i guess :) by the way you use solid copper wire? or flexible. made a stretch jig once for solid wire in the hope i could stretch it so hard the copper stays in the need straight position.. this need some major brute force i must say. rather gone look for some smaller solid core wire this will help doing that. then just apply the glue to all the wires with a brush and jamm the eggcrate on it wait to set and remove all from the frame.
 

MeTarzan

Member
2013-03-11 5:52 pm
For this small size I would think a simple loom/jig with proper spaced pegs/screws/nails would work. I like the idea of using the grooves in a threaded screw. Tensioning would be easier that way too I would think. After finally getting my mind around the innertube stretcher I have to change gears...
 
welll the egg crate melting and the wires are all aucoustat :) way. the melting is prob even more dificult then just glue i guess :) by the way you use solid copper wire? or flexible. made a stretch jig once for solid wire in the hope i could stretch it so hard the copper stays in the need straight position.. this need some major brute force i must say. rather gone look for some smaller solid core wire this will help doing that. then just apply the glue to all the wires with a brush and jamm the eggcrate on it wait to set and remove all from the frame.

In the current example seen in photo I used flexible wire with outer diameter of 1mm, insulated with PVC. Solid core with PVC insulation is very much preferred as it does not lose shape over time. Heavy stretching force is required for so many wires, and all should be stretched into plastic deformation.
I have tried to use the same method of gluing like acoustat did, by applying molten egg crate material. It was not difficult at all. Resulted in much better bond compared to several glues I have tried. It encapsulated wires well, sagging into the egg crate was minimal. These stators had been stored in horrible conditions for a few years and I could not find any wire detached.
 
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