Hey guys,
Ive been wanting to get into tube amps but the problem is theyre so expensive!! Way too expensive for a mere soldier like me at least.
My budget is $300. At that price im looking at either the k12g from s5 (which ill mod), or the tubelab sse. Id really like to make the el cheapo but doing p2p and not having any kind of building instructions makes it very very unlikely with my limited understanding of electronics and schematics.
Out of those 2 amps, which would be the better choice for sound quality? Are there any other kits in my price range that are worth looking at? Kits with a pcb and instructions are very preferable.
Thanks for any help guys.
Ive been wanting to get into tube amps but the problem is theyre so expensive!! Way too expensive for a mere soldier like me at least.
My budget is $300. At that price im looking at either the k12g from s5 (which ill mod), or the tubelab sse. Id really like to make the el cheapo but doing p2p and not having any kind of building instructions makes it very very unlikely with my limited understanding of electronics and schematics.
Out of those 2 amps, which would be the better choice for sound quality? Are there any other kits in my price range that are worth looking at? Kits with a pcb and instructions are very preferable.
Thanks for any help guys.
Tubelab SSE, or he's got a push pull option as well. (simple pp).
Point to point is really not bad.. But if you're just starting w/ electronics, would be more difficult to troubleshoot if you make a mistake. PCB's are obviously very easy 🙂. (There's a certain sense of accomplishment, even when building someone elses circuit, when you build P2P, that's missing from a PCB. Plus you'll save ~$30, or whatever the PCB costs)
I've been very happy w/ Tubelabs offerings, and his very helpful website (and helpful posts here on the forum).
If you're a little more advanced, look at pmillett.com. He's got several PCB's for different amps, and they're all very good. He's got less instructions than Tubelab, though.
Point to point is really not bad.. But if you're just starting w/ electronics, would be more difficult to troubleshoot if you make a mistake. PCB's are obviously very easy 🙂. (There's a certain sense of accomplishment, even when building someone elses circuit, when you build P2P, that's missing from a PCB. Plus you'll save ~$30, or whatever the PCB costs)
I've been very happy w/ Tubelabs offerings, and his very helpful website (and helpful posts here on the forum).
If you're a little more advanced, look at pmillett.com. He's got several PCB's for different amps, and they're all very good. He's got less instructions than Tubelab, though.
Its not really the p2p aspect that keeps me away. Im sure id be able to put it together IF there were picture instructions on how to.
When i got my lm3886 kit, i had absolutely no clue what any of the components were and i never soldered before in my life. I put it together with relative ease simply by following the directions it came with. To me it was like really intricate, advanced legos lol.
Would you recommend the sse or the spp?
When i got my lm3886 kit, i had absolutely no clue what any of the components were and i never soldered before in my life. I put it together with relative ease simply by following the directions it came with. To me it was like really intricate, advanced legos lol.
Would you recommend the sse or the spp?
Then yeah, I'd stick to a PCB for the first few builds.
PP vs SE... I'm not sure of the cost differences. Then there are all the usual PP vs SE differences.. SE might sound a little better, but PP will probably have more power and be able to drive more standard speakers. Do some reading on that. (Read the instructions for both the SSE and SPP on Tubelabs's site,and do some general PP vs SE reading here, if you're up for some loooong threads full of differing opinions 🙂 )
tubelab has a forum in the vendor section of diyaudio, and you might find more help there.
PP vs SE... I'm not sure of the cost differences. Then there are all the usual PP vs SE differences.. SE might sound a little better, but PP will probably have more power and be able to drive more standard speakers. Do some reading on that. (Read the instructions for both the SSE and SPP on Tubelabs's site,and do some general PP vs SE reading here, if you're up for some loooong threads full of differing opinions 🙂 )
tubelab has a forum in the vendor section of diyaudio, and you might find more help there.
Thanks for your input man.
Ive been reading up on schematics and p2p and its not as complex as i first thought. I think the el cheapo might be an option after all.
So now the question is, sse or el cheapo? 🙂
Ive been reading up on schematics and p2p and its not as complex as i first thought. I think the el cheapo might be an option after all.
So now the question is, sse or el cheapo? 🙂
Another option is the st35 diytube.com • View topic - ST35 Rev E - Docs & Mods - 8/28/13
Cost would be just shy of 300. Any info on the quality of this amp?
Cost would be just shy of 300. Any info on the quality of this amp?
I built this about 8 years ago. I like it and it still sees regular use. Not sure about today's prices but when I built it I think it was closer to $400. You will also need a preamp.
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To be honest, I would recommend going with one of the printed circuit board options (tubelab) first before diving into point to point. The reason I say this is because the physical layout of these high impedance circuits makes a big difference between a well performing amp and one that hums so bad you don't want to listen to it. I would highly recommend a book such as Morgan Jones 'Building Valve Amplifiers' Building Valve Amplifiers: Morgan Jones: 9780750656955: Amazon.com: Books if you decide to build point to point. This book is about $50, so this eats into your budget 😉
My first tube project was a Tubelab sse. It is a great amp that is still going strong after about 6-7 years. My amp is the very first one shown in the tube lab customer builds page. After experimenting with all sorts of tubes and configurations, the best setup was with a JJ ecc81 and JJ e34L power tubes. The Russian 6P3S-E were also very good. I have switches to switch between triode, ultra linear and between cathode feedback and no cathode feedback. I ended up settling on cathode feedback and UL as the best sounding and would simply wire this option with no switching if I build another. Output transformers I used were Edcor, they are relatively cheap and sound good. I would go with these for a budget setup https://www.edcorusa.com/gxse10-6-5k at about $28 each (or https://www.edcorusa.com/cxse25-8-5k at $88 each if you want to spend more - for first project I would go the cheaper ones). Edcor probably make a suitable power transformer too, so you may end up saving some on shipping if you buy all the iron from them. The simple push pull was not an option when I first built. Both options would be good, however, it looks like the web site does not have as much detail for new builders for the simple push pull.
Also, don't fall into the novice trap of thinking that 'voodoo' components are going to make much of a difference. No high-price capacitor is going to make up for a poor circuit or poor layout. 😉
Whatever you decide to build, good luck with the project!
Chris
My first tube project was a Tubelab sse. It is a great amp that is still going strong after about 6-7 years. My amp is the very first one shown in the tube lab customer builds page. After experimenting with all sorts of tubes and configurations, the best setup was with a JJ ecc81 and JJ e34L power tubes. The Russian 6P3S-E were also very good. I have switches to switch between triode, ultra linear and between cathode feedback and no cathode feedback. I ended up settling on cathode feedback and UL as the best sounding and would simply wire this option with no switching if I build another. Output transformers I used were Edcor, they are relatively cheap and sound good. I would go with these for a budget setup https://www.edcorusa.com/gxse10-6-5k at about $28 each (or https://www.edcorusa.com/cxse25-8-5k at $88 each if you want to spend more - for first project I would go the cheaper ones). Edcor probably make a suitable power transformer too, so you may end up saving some on shipping if you buy all the iron from them. The simple push pull was not an option when I first built. Both options would be good, however, it looks like the web site does not have as much detail for new builders for the simple push pull.
Also, don't fall into the novice trap of thinking that 'voodoo' components are going to make much of a difference. No high-price capacitor is going to make up for a poor circuit or poor layout. 😉
Whatever you decide to build, good luck with the project!
Chris
There are deals on stuff out there, you just have to REALLY look.
I got my Citation II, Fisher 400-C, 2000+ vacuum tubes, 300+LP's, a ton of ham radio equipment, HP 200CD oscillator, Heathkit w4am, 807w/williamson amp (similar to musicians amp), and some other stuff at an estate sale all for your entire budget.
If you buy from an end user that knows the gear, you will pay dearly for it. If you can solder, study, and be resourceful hi-fi doesn't have to be expensive.
sorry to be off topic
I got my Citation II, Fisher 400-C, 2000+ vacuum tubes, 300+LP's, a ton of ham radio equipment, HP 200CD oscillator, Heathkit w4am, 807w/williamson amp (similar to musicians amp), and some other stuff at an estate sale all for your entire budget.
If you buy from an end user that knows the gear, you will pay dearly for it. If you can solder, study, and be resourceful hi-fi doesn't have to be expensive.
sorry to be off topic
I'd have to go with the ST 35 rev "e" kit or tube labs SSE or PPE. DIYTUBE also has excellent followup service with forum as well. The ST 35 is their product. I built the get-set-go modded for 300b - that would take you way over your budget. I'd either get the tube lab Push pull or the ST 35. Oddwatt is probably the most complete kit. 800 bucks though. It's a lot like gingertube's solid state IC controlled tube bias tube amp.
If I have any advice from a recent NOOB to a beginning NOOB is to search for specific answers connected to general electronics. Star ground vs. bus ground - stuff like that. Opinions about capacitors and stuff like that can drive you crazy.
If I have any advice from a recent NOOB to a beginning NOOB is to search for specific answers connected to general electronics. Star ground vs. bus ground - stuff like that. Opinions about capacitors and stuff like that can drive you crazy.
There is a good page on the Tubelab site that gives a breakdown of the various configurations Tubes and Applications | Tubelab
I would look at the Tubelab site and see what amp you are most comfortable with regarding the amount of support on the site. Also checkout the Tubelab forums here on DIY Audio Tubelab - diyAudio
If I were to build again today, I would probably go the push pull route, just because I have done the single ended thing.
Another deciding factor may be that I think George (Tubelab) may be in the process of moving from Florida to West Virginia and may not have boards available. A quick email may solve that question though...
Regards,
Chris
I would look at the Tubelab site and see what amp you are most comfortable with regarding the amount of support on the site. Also checkout the Tubelab forums here on DIY Audio Tubelab - diyAudio
If I were to build again today, I would probably go the push pull route, just because I have done the single ended thing.
Another deciding factor may be that I think George (Tubelab) may be in the process of moving from Florida to West Virginia and may not have boards available. A quick email may solve that question though...
Regards,
Chris
Yes, I'm moving, but yes I still have all 3 boards in stock and a few parts kits for the SPP. I keep a batch in both places. Worst case is an order comes in right after I leave on another trip. It will ship when I get to the destination which is usually 3 days or less.
My lab, and the new stuff under development for Tubelab is a different story. Everything is boxed up and scattered about in 4 different places. I hope to set up some kind of a temporary work bench in the place where we will be staying while my new house is being built, but the final Tubelab design site is at least a year away. It should make the old one look like a toy shop.
BTW, I resurrected the driver boards we developed back in the 6L6GC in AB2 thread and made a cool sounding 120 WPC amp using a combination of screen drive and conventional control grid drive. I will post the details after I have boards ready to ship. That might be a while.
If I had a $300 budget for a kit, I would definitely look at Tubelab's offerings.
I currently own an original ST-35 and it sounds good.
Though I am currently looking into building a different amp.
One that would have the choice of different tubes and parts.
Tubelab's kits look as though they not only perform well, but can help give a great understanding of tube topology. I feel that a simple kit with a low parts count will allow for better quality parts and upgrades down the line- if desired.
Basically, they can help you learn and gain experience in the process. Something you will want to have when it comes time for another tube amp down the line.... 🙂
I currently own an original ST-35 and it sounds good.
Though I am currently looking into building a different amp.
One that would have the choice of different tubes and parts.
Tubelab's kits look as though they not only perform well, but can help give a great understanding of tube topology. I feel that a simple kit with a low parts count will allow for better quality parts and upgrades down the line- if desired.
Basically, they can help you learn and gain experience in the process. Something you will want to have when it comes time for another tube amp down the line.... 🙂
Thanks George, I think you are being very charitable saying 'we' developed that amp 😉 I recall you being extremely generous with your advice and help. Those amps are still my daily drivers.
For the OP, if Tubelab has the board and parts kit for the simple push pull, I would go with that option, it will save having to source parts and will save on the shipping. Combine with Edcor power and output transformers and a suitable chassis and you will have a great project.
For the OP, if Tubelab has the board and parts kit for the simple push pull, I would go with that option, it will save having to source parts and will save on the shipping. Combine with Edcor power and output transformers and a suitable chassis and you will have a great project.
I can recommend this kit as a first build, it´s rather easy to assemble on a single board and only needs a powertransformer to complete, and a chassis of course.
I listen to my amplifier everyday and I really like the sound. I work as a technician of hi-end audio, so I can appreciate good sound 🙂
It claims an output of 5 W per channel, and drives my rather inefficient speakers with good volume and a nice bass, despite the small OT`s. It´s available with other output tubes, such as EL34 also.
Only $ 85.00 incl shipping worldwide.
HIFI 6N2+6P3P TUBE power amplifier 2.0 class A BOARD FOR diy kit -in Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com
Cheers,
Seppo
I listen to my amplifier everyday and I really like the sound. I work as a technician of hi-end audio, so I can appreciate good sound 🙂
It claims an output of 5 W per channel, and drives my rather inefficient speakers with good volume and a nice bass, despite the small OT`s. It´s available with other output tubes, such as EL34 also.
Only $ 85.00 incl shipping worldwide.
HIFI 6N2+6P3P TUBE power amplifier 2.0 class A BOARD FOR diy kit -in Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com
Cheers,
Seppo
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Would i need an OT that goes down below 20hz if i have an active subwoofer connected to the amp via high level inputs? or does the OT only affect the passive speakers connected to the amp?
I am sure someone will me if I am wrong, but my thoughts:
By high level output I guess you are saying that your sub takes as its input the outputs from the speaker terminal of your amp? If this is so, a tube amp with small output transformers may not pass the bass information to the sub. Therefore that low frequency information is lost and the sub cannot amplify it. The best solution (and then one I am using for my Simple SE) is to split the signal at line level prior to the tube amp. This way, there is no loss of information to the sub, and the tube amp can use smaller economical transformers as they are not required to reproduce low frequencies.
By high level output I guess you are saying that your sub takes as its input the outputs from the speaker terminal of your amp? If this is so, a tube amp with small output transformers may not pass the bass information to the sub. Therefore that low frequency information is lost and the sub cannot amplify it. The best solution (and then one I am using for my Simple SE) is to split the signal at line level prior to the tube amp. This way, there is no loss of information to the sub, and the tube amp can use smaller economical transformers as they are not required to reproduce low frequencies.
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