Or the newer 8MC300Nd?
Interesting high efficiency midranges. Smaller than the 12p80Nd, yet larger than the usual 5 to 6.5" mids.
Interesting high efficiency midranges. Smaller than the 12p80Nd, yet larger than the usual 5 to 6.5" mids.
the most ugly driver ever built? probably...
but I'm sure it looks much better up close. Beyma needs some photography expert in its facility
but I'm sure it looks much better up close. Beyma needs some photography expert in its facility
The two drivers aren't really comparable, the 8MC300Nd is a high excursion bass-mid driver while the 10MCF400Nd is a extremely high power, pure mid or mid-horn driver. You won't find many mid drivers with a 4" VC. The 10" got a closed/sealed basket, no use or need for an enclosure.
The range I'm interested is 300/400Hz up to 2/2.2kHz, so beaming starts being an issue with larger drivers. No published data of the 10" at varying angles.
Also looking for high efficiency to be driven by 2W SET dedicated to the midrange. So high power handling is a non-issue, but high efficiency is a big deal.
I'll run a quick comparison of specs vs my current midrange, but was hoping to get input from someone who has auditioned these. As noted, it would be an expensive gamble going from specs only. Aesthetics, even at these price points, are nice to have, secondary to the other criteria.
Also looking for high efficiency to be driven by 2W SET dedicated to the midrange. So high power handling is a non-issue, but high efficiency is a big deal.
I'll run a quick comparison of specs vs my current midrange, but was hoping to get input from someone who has auditioned these. As noted, it would be an expensive gamble going from specs only. Aesthetics, even at these price points, are nice to have, secondary to the other criteria.
SET
Greetings !
Chances are that you will not be able to hear the benefit of an SET amplifier
on a cone driver. Most reports of that "SET" sound were through compression drivers on horns where the combined efficiency is 110db/watt and up.
Greetings !
Chances are that you will not be able to hear the benefit of an SET amplifier
on a cone driver. Most reports of that "SET" sound were through compression drivers on horns where the combined efficiency is 110db/watt and up.
A superior cone mid range.......
..... would be found here:
Acoustic Elegance TD10M high efficiency bass/midbass driver
Hook it up with an amplifier designed by John Curl, and you will be walking in
Tall Cotton 🙂
..... would be found here:
Acoustic Elegance TD10M high efficiency bass/midbass driver
Hook it up with an amplifier designed by John Curl, and you will be walking in
Tall Cotton 🙂
The beaming is almost completely depend from the geometry of the driver. A 10° response plot is not usual for a spec sheet, I've never seen one in a data sheet of a cone driver. You can exoect it to be very close to the 0° plot. It doesn't matter though because the frequency response will change with the enclosure dimensions -> Baffle Step.
If you don't need that power, that'not the driver you want. There are better suited midrange drivers with less Mms and lower fs so you won't have to flatten the huge impedance peak at the fs because it is exactly at the crossover frequency. That is, if you are going passive - which I assume, because otherwise the spl wouldn't be that important while power isn't.
Hey Scott.
Intriguing comment. Would you mind elaborating? I thought SETs and fullrangers worked well. And I was under the impression a cone with high sensitivity would be a good match with a SET.
Vapor Audio uses the TD10M with the TPL-150H (that I have), but crosses over at 1100Hz. Seems the TD10M doesn't like being xo higher. I was also interested in TD8M, but sensitivity wasn't high enough the way I saw things.
I had the TD10M crossed at 1.8k and it was squeeky clean. Any breakup above is very mild. Midrange is VERY good
Very interesting!! Do you think it could be crossed at 2kHz with a very steep slope?
Yes I think it would be fine. It has low inductance and a well made and treated cone. Great engineering
Yes, I obviousely did. Sorry. I was on the tablet.
Well, regarding the beaming the cone drivers behave quite similar in general because, well, it depends on the geomety. Sure, the differ in detail more or less but it's generally not a relyable information for a bass/mid driver because the dispersion will differ a LOT anyway because of the geometry of the baffle etc. so it's not very useful, hardly any manufacturer publishes it.
Please don't scoff because this snippet comes from a magazine. Please do even more research on your own. Back issues of the "Sound Practices" magazine should also provide some good reading ! Below is a snippet from the Absolute Sound. See link.
In addition, SET circuits are extremely simple and often use very little or no negative feedback. Negative feedback involves taking some of the amplifier’s output signal and feeding it back to the input. Such feedback lowers distortion, but many feel that any feedback is detrimental to amplifier musicality.
On the test bench, SET amplifiers have laughably bad technical performance. They typically produce fewer than 25Wpc of output power and have extremely high distortion—as much as 10% total harmonic distortion (THD) at the amplifier’s rated output. Although most SET amplifiers use a single triode output tube, additional triodes can be combined to produce more output power. Some SET amplifiers, however, put out just 3Wpc. In fact, there’s a kind of cult around SET amplifiers that strives for lower and lower output power. These SET enthusiasts believe that the lower the output power, the better the sound. One SET designer told a reviewer, in all seriousness, “If you liked my 9W amplifier, wait until you hear my 3W model.”
In addition to low output power and high distortion, SET amplifiers have a very high output impedance as amplifiers go: on the order of 1.5–3 ohms. This is contrasted with the 0.1 ohm output impedance (or less) of most solid-state amplifiers, and the 0.8 ohms of many push-pull tube designs. Because a loudspeaker’s impedance isn’t constant with frequency, the SET amplifier’s high output impedance reacts with the loudspeaker’s impedance variations to produce changes in frequency response. That is, the SET amplifier will have a different frequency response with every loudspeaker it drives. These variations can range from just 0.1dB with some loudspeakers that have a fairly constant impedance, to as much as 5dB with other loudspeakers. The SET amp’s sound will therefore be highly dependent on the loudspeaker with which it is matched.
A Survey Of Amplifier Types (TAS 217) | The Absolute Sound
Atma-Sphere music systems, inc.
Hey Scott. Certainly not scoffing!
And glad you linked to Atma-Sphere because over at Audiogon I exchanged several times with Ralph, the man behind Atma-Sphere who goes by "atmasphere" at that forum. He doesn't design/sell SETs, but rather OTLs (transformerless zero-feedback fully-balanced amps). He explained SETs indeed exhibit very high distortion at the rated power, just like the article said. However, he explained the trick is SETs distortion drop like a rock as you diminish power demand as a % of rated power. So at 25% of rated power distortion is negligible. He also showed SETs' distortion is based on even harmonics, which are a lot less harsh to our ears.
So the trick is to design a speaker with a SET in mind, which I'm doing. In my mind, my "rated power" is 50% of the amp's rated power. So a 45-based amp delivers 2W rated power. I design for 1W consumption tops. Certainly limiting my options!
Furthermore, as the article describes, SETs have high output impedance, so that also needs to be considered in the design. Fortunately the TPL displays a resistive constant load, making life easier. For the midrange that also needs to be accounted for, which will be more difficult because these drivers have tougher impedances.
BTW, I am more and more inclined to using a full range as a midrange, like you do. W8s look very interesting. Lowthers have the added benefit of coming in 15 ohm versions, making life easier to 2W SETs. I found a thread at the fullrange forum from a guy using a Lowther fullrange on an OB with a Yamamoto A-08S (which I'm eyeing) who was thrilled. I'm not going OB. Still considering a midrange horn, cone driven.
10MCF400Nd
The 10MCF400Nd is a fascinating driver. I stumbled upon it while searching for the unobtainable 102Nd/N. These 2 drivers have a lot in common. Especially if one opened the basket bringing the Qes and Qts back below 0.1.
It looks like the 10MCF400Nd was made as a much more rugged replacement for the 102Nd/N. Of course, the closed basket changed the T/S parameters thereby concealing a hidden gem.
I would be very interested to hear more from existing users about how it sounds.
The 10MCF400Nd is a fascinating driver. I stumbled upon it while searching for the unobtainable 102Nd/N. These 2 drivers have a lot in common. Especially if one opened the basket bringing the Qes and Qts back below 0.1.
It looks like the 10MCF400Nd was made as a much more rugged replacement for the 102Nd/N. Of course, the closed basket changed the T/S parameters thereby concealing a hidden gem.
I would be very interested to hear more from existing users about how it sounds.
You need polar plots to make an informed purchase. I would search for the email address of a few Beyma technical and sales teams. I do not suspect that at 2kHz a 10" cone will "optimally" match the 80-degree horizontal horn of the TPL-150H... BUT IT LOOKS COOL, and also looks like one of the best TPL-150H options for ~100db/W. Suspect 400Hz is the lowest crossover frequency.
==========
Crazy Talk.
WHAT IF... you used the Beyma TPL-150H tweeters for solid state bedroom speakers with a high efficiency 6" in front and counter-force 10G40 side-side woofers?
AND YOU... Purchased a pair of SET-friendly 110db/W, 16-ohm BMS 4594Nd Coaxial compression drivers plus a SEOS24 waveguide to put on top of two up-front 12" woofers.
==========
Crazy Talk.
WHAT IF... you used the Beyma TPL-150H tweeters for solid state bedroom speakers with a high efficiency 6" in front and counter-force 10G40 side-side woofers?
AND YOU... Purchased a pair of SET-friendly 110db/W, 16-ohm BMS 4594Nd Coaxial compression drivers plus a SEOS24 waveguide to put on top of two up-front 12" woofers.
