Almost any decent tweeter nowadays will perform similar or better.
SB Acoustics or so, but even Dayton has tweeters that are fine.
I agree, there is nothing wrong with Seas, nice quality stuff.
But these days I just also don't find it interesting anymore because of the pricing.
SB Acoustics or so, but even Dayton has tweeters that are fine.
I agree, there is nothing wrong with Seas, nice quality stuff.
But these days I just also don't find it interesting anymore because of the pricing.
Hmmm... I suggest having a closer look at the price of other good quality tweeters in the UK. The rather rapid economic decline of the UK relative to other developed countries is driving up the price of all drivers not just SEAS although if you are quick you may catch one or two companies that are slow to raise their prices by large amounts.
I also really like the sound of this tweeter - way more as the 1" older Seas. Resonance frequency is higher, dispersion wider. Sensitivity is low but if you don't need a lot of SPL it's a great tweeter!
How many do you need? I can have a look, I should have some laying around ...
How many do you need? I can have a look, I should have some laying around ...
Thanks all, good replies so far.
And yes price increases makes them far less attractive 🙁
Tried the dayton audio, subjectively listening I didn't like it, wasn't as much sparkle and resolution as the seas I felt. Preferred the seas by wide margin.
And yes price increases makes them far less attractive 🙁
Thanks for the suggestion, I really don't like many soft domes though. There are a few I like but the cheaper end ones sound a little, for want of better words, dull, lacklustre and unrealistic. I like airiness, sparkle and resolution when it's called for. In general metal domes when intigrated well do that for me. They also make metallic instruments and cymbals sound more realistic to me and as they would sound live. 'Some' soft domes are extremely good but generally I prefer metal domes.
I also prefer hard domes cause in direct comparison I always find soft domes do some sound on their own. The Seas probably does some extra "shinyness" but when you like that it's perfect.
Bliesma T25A would be a modern and way more capable tweeter with similar sound signature - but as you look for a cheap one ...
I had a few and used it in the first version of my reference speaker with Daton 2" mids. Will have a look if I find an original pair - I modified the front to come closer to the mid for mine.
Bliesma T25A would be a modern and way more capable tweeter with similar sound signature - but as you look for a cheap one ...
I had a few and used it in the first version of my reference speaker with Daton 2" mids. Will have a look if I find an original pair - I modified the front to come closer to the mid for mine.
I would try then the SB26STAC that is cheap, soft dome but has that hairyness/resolution and sparkle at the end of the bandwidth. Can be used from 2500 hz or 2000 with a stiffer 24 dB. Anyway there is still the SB26 ADC or CDC metal dome if cheaper than the Seas in GB.
I purchased two 22 TAF/G cause was interested by the hybrid big surround shape as well. but I am not sure it is east to use below 3 k hz due to the high H2 (that is maybe giving to it its nice character). The SB26 ADC and CAC can be used much lower. Notice the Seas costs me 44 euros at tlhp.com but shipping inside France is cheap.
I purchased two 22 TAF/G cause was interested by the hybrid big surround shape as well. but I am not sure it is east to use below 3 k hz due to the high H2 (that is maybe giving to it its nice character). The SB26 ADC and CAC can be used much lower. Notice the Seas costs me 44 euros at tlhp.com but shipping inside France is cheap.
Hmm, interesting, thanks for the suggestions. I’m not sure about the soft dome, but I am intrigued, as always the subjective listening will be the only thing that would tell if I’d like it. I know there are some good soft domes out there, just generally I'm way more impressed with hard domes. But these do have to be integrated properly, otherwise they can easily fatigue listening.
The aluminium version however is a much more appealing option to me. And those would work out price wise around half the cost of the Seas tweeters.
I did really like those Seas, it’s a shame the price hiked so much 🙁 I may yet bite the bullet and buy some, as I know how they sound in a speaker I’m planning to build. The trouble is at around £130 delivered to me for a pair it kind of takes the shine off low cost DIY audio. I could buy some half decent second hand speakers for that cost, which were designed and made in a decent manufacturing process.
The aluminium version however is a much more appealing option to me. And those would work out price wise around half the cost of the Seas tweeters.
I did really like those Seas, it’s a shame the price hiked so much 🙁 I may yet bite the bullet and buy some, as I know how they sound in a speaker I’m planning to build. The trouble is at around £130 delivered to me for a pair it kind of takes the shine off low cost DIY audio. I could buy some half decent second hand speakers for that cost, which were designed and made in a decent manufacturing process.
What about a second Hand B&W DM60xx or DM7xx mk1 with its alumunium dome then. The second hand market should give a lot of opportunitizs where you are.
"Why DIY?
Contrary to popular belief, the main reason for DIY is not (or should not be) about saving money. While this is possible in many cases (and especially against 'top of the line' commercial products), there are other, far better reasons to do it yourself."
From this site.
Generally speaking, diying is about the second thing you mentioned, althought, especially on speakers, much money can be saved in higher price range, where the ratio of cost to street price is usually 1:10 (or worse).
In the last paragraph of his test (concerning the Wavecor TW045 tweeter), Vance Dickason consider it equal in terms of sound quality to those found "into two-channel high-end loudspeakers in the $20,000 to $100,000/pair price range. While I have not performed the same kind of subjective listening test on the new TW045WA01 tweeter, I’m guessing it falls into this same category."
Price of the forementioned tweeter is $250 (no VAT) in Germany.
All I want to say is that althought it is practically impossible to beat a commercial loudspeaker in the 200-300 euros range, things change in higher categories.
Contrary to popular belief, the main reason for DIY is not (or should not be) about saving money. While this is possible in many cases (and especially against 'top of the line' commercial products), there are other, far better reasons to do it yourself."
From this site.
Generally speaking, diying is about the second thing you mentioned, althought, especially on speakers, much money can be saved in higher price range, where the ratio of cost to street price is usually 1:10 (or worse).
In the last paragraph of his test (concerning the Wavecor TW045 tweeter), Vance Dickason consider it equal in terms of sound quality to those found "into two-channel high-end loudspeakers in the $20,000 to $100,000/pair price range. While I have not performed the same kind of subjective listening test on the new TW045WA01 tweeter, I’m guessing it falls into this same category."
Price of the forementioned tweeter is $250 (no VAT) in Germany.
All I want to say is that althought it is practically impossible to beat a commercial loudspeaker in the 200-300 euros range, things change in higher categories.
If that’s a question why DIY, then simply because of price and making something that is bespoke and tailored to my needs at the same time. It’s not always about cost as you say but the thing is depending on what you are trying to achieve, then cost is a big factor as well. All speakers are a compromise of some sort, so I’d rather just have one off a shelf than invest my time and effort into something that will not always, have been designed better, finished better and even perhaps not sound better. It’s not always big speakers either where the savings can be made. Just take the BBC LS3/5A design, yes they sound fantastic at what they do best, but how can most people justify their £2500 price tag that they sell for new in the uk. This is for a pair of speakers that are only 30cm in height, it’s basically daylight robbery. There are years of research and development yes, but those cost seldom carry forward. The cost of materials alone should never amount to anything near 2500 GBP! I’ve had some good high spec sports saloons and convertible cars in excellent condition used for less than the price of these speakers new.
What is the lowest electrical cut off you dealed with it, plerase ? Curious if it could workk good enough at average domestic levels something like 18 db elctrical cross-over at one octave of the Fs ?
Well, I don't agree with this.
Especially compared to nowadays standards.
I think I am also not the only one.
But yeah, go have a look at Erin's Audio Corner and see for yourself how "well" certain brands perform.
With a bit of woodworking skill and some tools, it's not hard to make something that is miles better.
Companies like Genelec only use very standard Tymphany/Peerless drivers for example.
We could argue all day about subjective listening, it's just that, subjective. Objectively though they are still the speaker that others are benchmarked by for vocals and still, even after 50 years, the one audiophiles go googley eyed over. There is something about the design that just hit a sweet spot in the audio world. I do think they are still grossly over priced though IMHO.
I crossed these tweeters around 2.5k personally, with a active dsp crossover.
Objectively speaking I also don't agree with this.
I know very little recording studios using those even.
If you look at the amount of distortion they put out, it also doesn't make sense.
So, if a ton of distortion is your "benchmark", go for it.
The part I do agree with; hey if it makes you happy, go for it.
Way back in the day, they made a lot of sense, these days it's just pure nostalgia I think.
Nothing wrong with that btw.
I sometimes listen to m B110's for that, but definitely not for a good sound reproduction or vocals.
Remember, the LS3/5 & LS3/5a were not designed for recording studios, or home audio. They were designed for very specific duties as a voice monitor for the BBC's regional & general mobile broadcast vans, and for similar use in some of their very compact broadcast studio spaces. Their response [the correct response is shown in the original BBC paper -any deviation from that means it's not to the intended spec.] was balanced based on their acoustical scaling research for that specific purpose, with anything else being at best secondary.
Without meaning to over-state the merits of the 22TAF/G, it's probably worth considering it alongside some nominal high-end designs, as that can be -'interesting'. Its IB axial FR for instance is ruler flat from about 1.5KHz to > 20KHz, so in the 'non-issue' category -you can more or less do as you wish with it on that front. We can't cover everything or we'll be here until Christmas, but a comparison of HD2 - HD5 @ 2.83v is interesting. Like the attached: these are Yevgeniy's HFC HD measurements of the 22 and the evergreen Millennium, respectively. The latter certainly beats it as far as HD2 is concerned, but for the rest, the 22 is arguably ahead at this drive level.
Without meaning to over-state the merits of the 22TAF/G, it's probably worth considering it alongside some nominal high-end designs, as that can be -'interesting'. Its IB axial FR for instance is ruler flat from about 1.5KHz to > 20KHz, so in the 'non-issue' category -you can more or less do as you wish with it on that front. We can't cover everything or we'll be here until Christmas, but a comparison of HD2 - HD5 @ 2.83v is interesting. Like the attached: these are Yevgeniy's HFC HD measurements of the 22 and the evergreen Millennium, respectively. The latter certainly beats it as far as HD2 is concerned, but for the rest, the 22 is arguably ahead at this drive level.
Attachments
Fluke? Perhaps not. Same again, now with Accuton's wallet-wincingly expensive C25-6-158. Assuming a slight change in measurement conditions makes the Accuton's higher order products above ~7KHz more visible than they are with the Seas -it would be fair to say the 22 is holding up well, albeit with the same higher HD2 through the lower HF region. Given the price disparity -you couldn't say it's doing a terrible job.
