I decided to post some progress pics of my current DIY LCY ribbon copy
the magnets are 1/2"x 1/2" cubes and there are 6 per side of the frame...... and are N50
steel is precut 1"x.5" in sections to make the box and it's 1018 grade
I haven't connected the sides together yet... but that's the really easy part 🙂
the gap is .75x1.5" long like the LCY... however it's pushing .95T with the N50 magnets
Couple of quick thoughts I'm having
it was REALLY hard for me to even approach flushing up the magnets inside the gap...
what I was thinking was to lay a thin layer of epoxy over all the sides of the stacked magnets... and on the side facing the gap I was going to lay a very thin (probably 1/32" thick) layer of bondo... and sand that down till all those divits are level...also the magnets themselves aren't always level anyway
this would allow me (I did some prelimenary tests) to come to less than 1/32" between the 4.3 micron ribbon material and the magnets... also the gap would be a uniform .75" wide 🙂
Also I was going to weld these pieces together (they are just sitting there for camera shots).... however I wasn't sure I should weld with the magnets already in place (they're too strong to have made the frame first).... should I just go ahead drill and tap them ?
that's certainly very easy and I could do that in under 20 min to both 🙂
the magnets are 1/2"x 1/2" cubes and there are 6 per side of the frame...... and are N50
steel is precut 1"x.5" in sections to make the box and it's 1018 grade
I haven't connected the sides together yet... but that's the really easy part 🙂
the gap is .75x1.5" long like the LCY... however it's pushing .95T with the N50 magnets
Couple of quick thoughts I'm having
it was REALLY hard for me to even approach flushing up the magnets inside the gap...
what I was thinking was to lay a thin layer of epoxy over all the sides of the stacked magnets... and on the side facing the gap I was going to lay a very thin (probably 1/32" thick) layer of bondo... and sand that down till all those divits are level...also the magnets themselves aren't always level anyway
this would allow me (I did some prelimenary tests) to come to less than 1/32" between the 4.3 micron ribbon material and the magnets... also the gap would be a uniform .75" wide 🙂
Also I was going to weld these pieces together (they are just sitting there for camera shots).... however I wasn't sure I should weld with the magnets already in place (they're too strong to have made the frame first).... should I just go ahead drill and tap them ?
that's certainly very easy and I could do that in under 20 min to both 🙂
Attachments
You do not want to expose the magnets to any heat. They will quickly lose their magnetism, and will likely crack at higher temps. Most NdFeB magnets also have a nickel plating which easily chips off.
Some ribbons place a strip of polyimide tape along the magnet pole to create a continuous smooth surface next to the foil. The tape also softens any rubbing between the ribbon and pole pieces. I have not seen bondo.
To hold the magnets in place on the pole pieces I bent stainless steel sheet into a "flat Z" shape that went 0.3" over the edge of the magnets and screwed onto the pole piece. No glue could hold large NdFeB magnets as the plating would tear off.
For longer ribbons a 2 axis stainless steel vise allows accurate magnet placement. Each pole is built separate and then very long screw rods and may 2x4 wood spacers are used to guide the two pieces until the screws can be aligned and tightened.
Some ribbons place a strip of polyimide tape along the magnet pole to create a continuous smooth surface next to the foil. The tape also softens any rubbing between the ribbon and pole pieces. I have not seen bondo.
To hold the magnets in place on the pole pieces I bent stainless steel sheet into a "flat Z" shape that went 0.3" over the edge of the magnets and screwed onto the pole piece. No glue could hold large NdFeB magnets as the plating would tear off.
For longer ribbons a 2 axis stainless steel vise allows accurate magnet placement. Each pole is built separate and then very long screw rods and may 2x4 wood spacers are used to guide the two pieces until the screws can be aligned and tightened.
LineSource said:
on one magnet I accidentally chipped a very small corner of the nickel off... in the pics those "crusty" spots are actually glue 🙁.... it was hard to not get it on my fingers (on my face when the two magnets would smash the glue and splatter it)
tape isn't a bad idea and something that seems like it would work
I'm really glad I didn't weld them... it didn't seem like a good idea once I thought about it... electricity and heat
I'll post some pics tomorrow then the frames and magnets are all together and such
This glue is enough for my applications... however for a longer ribbons or a taller/wider magnet I could see where glue would NOT work properly... a type of "chamber" like you suggested would definitely be in order...
as far as pricing goes... it was only $32 for the 24 magnets needed to make 2 LCY copies 🙂
how do i measure my field gap strength? i dove intor ribbons with little to no research. Mine are made of good strong magnets, but which have no return path. Mounted in wood... oh well, perhaps my university has a measuring device for it.
You can build a Gaussmeter from a Hall Effect device. A calabrated Hall Effect device is about $60, but uncalabrated are $2-$5.
http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magmeter.htm
There are other more basic physics methods using:
a loop of wire, a current, and measurement of force.
a loop of wire, a current pulse, and measurement of the reverse voltage pulse generated by the field.
http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magmeter.htm
There are other more basic physics methods using:
a loop of wire, a current, and measurement of force.
a loop of wire, a current pulse, and measurement of the reverse voltage pulse generated by the field.
Ribbons are pretty much done...
A few problems I've run into...
The 4.3 micron is far too thin to anneal... it creates micro holes that I can only find with a magnifying glass and against the window
... right now un annealed foil is in both ribbons
I'm curious if it's even necessary to anneal it ... the 4.3 is fairly sturdy... If annealing is only to make it stronger... I'm not sure if it's necessary here
the pics below are with the unstained oak flanges (they're now stained dark to match the enclosures)...
underneath the flange is speaker gasketing foam to create a near air tight seal around the opening...
also there is black alum woven screen material over it to protect the material
I can bump up the ribbon thickness to the 5.8 I have...it is a good deal more robust and takes annealing very well... but this would decrease efficency by at least 1.5 db/w
also the pics are deceiving... the ribbon is actually quite flat but the flash made all the very small (VERY) irregularities look very large... looks like I balled it up and reopened it 🙄
the gap to the poles is a uniform 1/32".... in the worst area (middle on one side)... it goes to slightly less than 1/16"
there are pads of 30 micron aluminum that connect the ribbon to speaker wire on the underside
A few problems I've run into...
The 4.3 micron is far too thin to anneal... it creates micro holes that I can only find with a magnifying glass and against the window
... right now un annealed foil is in both ribbons
I'm curious if it's even necessary to anneal it ... the 4.3 is fairly sturdy... If annealing is only to make it stronger... I'm not sure if it's necessary here
the pics below are with the unstained oak flanges (they're now stained dark to match the enclosures)...
underneath the flange is speaker gasketing foam to create a near air tight seal around the opening...
also there is black alum woven screen material over it to protect the material
I can bump up the ribbon thickness to the 5.8 I have...it is a good deal more robust and takes annealing very well... but this would decrease efficency by at least 1.5 db/w
also the pics are deceiving... the ribbon is actually quite flat but the flash made all the very small (VERY) irregularities look very large... looks like I balled it up and reopened it 🙄
the gap to the poles is a uniform 1/32".... in the worst area (middle on one side)... it goes to slightly less than 1/16"
there are pads of 30 micron aluminum that connect the ribbon to speaker wire on the underside
Attachments
Also I'm trying to make a ribbon that's slit in the exact center like the LCY to create that very WIDE dispersion (if that's what it does)
I might swap these out for a slit pair if you guys think the results would be worth the trouble
I might swap these out for a slit pair if you guys think the results would be worth the trouble
It is exciting to see you diving into diy wuth such zest. reminds me of a few months ago when i made my first ribbon. I have decided to sacrifice efficiency for higher output. upgrading to a one by four inch ribbon. i hope to run it very low and very loud, ill keep in touch.
oh yes, i would recommend putting horizontal pleats in the ribbon. increase flexibility vertically and increase stiffness horizontally. this compensates for an uneven field strength across the gap.
stepping up to 5.8 will basically make the ribbon an exact copy of the LCY but with a more "destroyed" backwave than the U-shaped profile... this might sound audibly better... or it might not
I can easily anneal 5.8 and slit it down the center like the orginial LCY (this supposedly sounds better????)
I can easily anneal 5.8 and slit it down the center like the orginial LCY (this supposedly sounds better????)
what does micron mean? I have a sample of aluminum, i would like to know the thickness of. i think i can mass it, get the density, and figure out the dimentiion i do not know?
tade said:
a micron is 1 millionth of a meter or 0.001 mm
generally household aluminum foil is around 20 microns... maybe more in some cases
the thinnest you can easily get it from mcmaster and it's 12 microns
most companies use 6-9 micron foil in their ribbons...
LCY uses 6 micron
If anyone's interested... I did make a transformer... using Dhenry's 77 ferrite cores and 13 gauge primaries trifilar and 20 gauge trifilar secondaries... hooked the 4.3 up... sounds great !!! 🙂
my audio memory is somewhat non-specific to highs ... but there's no audible descrepancies in the sound... very similar to what I remember the real LCY sounding like... but it's actually louder
I tried to hook the 5.8 micron ribbon I have ... but the transformer is too specific and gave me VERY nasty results
I need to just wind another for the 5.8 micron... all that needs to change is the secondaries... and if I wanna go with the 4.3 I'll just unwind the secondaries and redo them for the 4.3 (I have two ribbons obviously for 2 channel audio)
the 5.8 foil I cut... I annealed and slit down the middle like the real LCY has... this of course is in line with their patent
I was able to acheive less than half a millimeter between the ribbon and magnets on the 5.8!!!! it's insane how close it is... I thought it was touching until I held a 500 watt lamp behind it and it was that close
the ruler I have makes it seem closer to 1/4 millimeter in many places on the pole...
I'm simply amazed I was able to acheive this... 3rd harmonic distortion should be in the millionths of a percent 😀
I'll post testing results with the 5.8 in an hour or so once I wind the xfrmer
I wound the other transformer... and the 5.8 is giving me some strange problems
the transformer happened to be identical to the 4.3 xfrmer... so I did switch between them to see if it fixed the problem... but no luck
there is no output from the ribbon... and if it's turned up to around 300 watts of output from the amp... the transformer starts to play music!!!!!!!!
I've never thought this was possible... but I think this is caused by saturation (it's only capable of 150 watts RMS before saturation)
I'm curious why the ribbon isn't playing... the other one likes both xfrmers just happily...
I checked my contacts... and the wire etc are all touching... and the ribbon itself is as tight to the foil contacts as I can screw it down
let me play with this is the morning and see if I can fix her up
the transformer happened to be identical to the 4.3 xfrmer... so I did switch between them to see if it fixed the problem... but no luck
there is no output from the ribbon... and if it's turned up to around 300 watts of output from the amp... the transformer starts to play music!!!!!!!!
I've never thought this was possible... but I think this is caused by saturation (it's only capable of 150 watts RMS before saturation)
I'm curious why the ribbon isn't playing... the other one likes both xfrmers just happily...
I checked my contacts... and the wire etc are all touching... and the ribbon itself is as tight to the foil contacts as I can screw it down
let me play with this is the morning and see if I can fix her up
i know that feeling!
maybe the interconnections in your transformer? i found it is tough to make good contact to the aluminum, maybe you could try roughing up your clamping surfaces? these minute scratches may penetrate the aluminum oxide more readily?
maybe the interconnections in your transformer? i found it is tough to make good contact to the aluminum, maybe you could try roughing up your clamping surfaces? these minute scratches may penetrate the aluminum oxide more readily?
I'm going to create some kind of mechanism to hold the wire to the aluminum
but first I'm going to test it and manually touch the wires to assure that the problem lies therein
but first I'm going to test it and manually touch the wires to assure that the problem lies therein
I got the other ribbon working with the 5.8
it is cutting in and out... which I find strange...
it's rather harsh sounding compared to the smoothness of the 4.3 micron
the 4.3 micron was indistinguishable from the LCY... but the 5.8 is pretty nasty sounding
it is cutting in and out... which I find strange...
it's rather harsh sounding compared to the smoothness of the 4.3 micron
the 4.3 micron was indistinguishable from the LCY... but the 5.8 is pretty nasty sounding
- Status
- Not open for further replies.