Hey everyone.
I’m the new proud owner of a nice NOS set of 806-8A, 811B horns, and 416-8A Altec’s. So now I need the Brain Trusts help in deciding on what cabinet to build for them.
I’d like to keep these in the 4-6cuft range and also would like to run the horns free air exposed sitting on top. So what would you guys do? Iconic style or Valencia with the horn on top?
As far as crossovers should I just grab a pair of the GPA N1200-8c and call it a day or is something else needed.
Amp power isn’t a problem from my Yamaha AS2200. I’ll also use digital room correction to extend and smooth out the frequency response.
Should I plan on adding super tweeters?
Basically if these showed up at your door what would you do?
Thanks.
I’m the new proud owner of a nice NOS set of 806-8A, 811B horns, and 416-8A Altec’s. So now I need the Brain Trusts help in deciding on what cabinet to build for them.
I’d like to keep these in the 4-6cuft range and also would like to run the horns free air exposed sitting on top. So what would you guys do? Iconic style or Valencia with the horn on top?
As far as crossovers should I just grab a pair of the GPA N1200-8c and call it a day or is something else needed.
Amp power isn’t a problem from my Yamaha AS2200. I’ll also use digital room correction to extend and smooth out the frequency response.
Should I plan on adding super tweeters?
Basically if these showed up at your door what would you do?
Thanks.
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Being near the University probably throw the biggest Animal house style
Toga party I could.
I personally have a thing for the early Black Utility cabinets / Iconic
Where the plywood edges show on the front.
And really dont care for extremely large overpriced
crossover components. That are popular for
other " HiFi" builds
But In this case would actually use excessively large coils and
have crossover visible on top , outside the cabinet , with largest
ugliest components possible. Including as many motor start
caps as possible.
Likely paint the caps with krinkle finish and make fake magical
hifi labels for them with 1940's style text/borders
Likely add extra bracing inside the cabinet.
And use round ports on the baffle. Not square cutout.
All good, it hides behind the grill. Just more modern
bracing and ports on inside. Outside just plain old
painted plywood like original. Grain showing and all
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Yup @WhiteDragon that’s on the options list. I have ordered a h808 horn from Markus Klug but now I think I’m going to use the 811b instead.
What crossover plans would you use?
@Cal Weldon I haven’t explored the 828 cabinet. I know it’s big and I haven’t entertained something like that but it still not an out of the realm of possibilities. I research more
What crossover plans would you use?
@Cal Weldon I haven’t explored the 828 cabinet. I know it’s big and I haven’t entertained something like that but it still not an out of the realm of possibilities. I research more
Greets!
A number of ways to answer this starting with 'Iconic' is the original Valencia complete with an Iconic sticker on the back, so what Iconic are you referring to? The original 'bare bones' 30's model or the 40's version Les Paul used or?
Yeah, all things considered, the M19's XO is fine IF you maintain the same woofer/horn vertical spacing, horn set back as the M19 = *
Me, given your 6 ft^3 i.d.? max net cab Vb; I'd make the cab's o.d. = horn width and Iconic's 18" o.d. depth, figure how high it would be, which should place the woofer up around my seated ear height to get some of the 'feel' of a live event and angle the horns down and speakers toe'd in as required. The horns would get some terminus/mouth, bell damping.
Personally would do my own XO as I've no use for the M19's EQ and prefer using the pioneer's PIO audio caps that are still around as appliance 'motor start/run' along with CD horn EQ to flatten it and with my hearing haven't ever needed a super tweeter**, plus prefer a lower XO point/slope and separately mounted for easy tweaking if desired. As for cosmetics, the '40s era 612 utility/ monitor cab.
* need to find my sketch or you can figure it from this factory drawing
** Dan Trainer's now long ago built, 'tightened' up, M19 w/super tweeter
A number of ways to answer this starting with 'Iconic' is the original Valencia complete with an Iconic sticker on the back, so what Iconic are you referring to? The original 'bare bones' 30's model or the 40's version Les Paul used or?
Yeah, all things considered, the M19's XO is fine IF you maintain the same woofer/horn vertical spacing, horn set back as the M19 = *
Me, given your 6 ft^3 i.d.? max net cab Vb; I'd make the cab's o.d. = horn width and Iconic's 18" o.d. depth, figure how high it would be, which should place the woofer up around my seated ear height to get some of the 'feel' of a live event and angle the horns down and speakers toe'd in as required. The horns would get some terminus/mouth, bell damping.
Personally would do my own XO as I've no use for the M19's EQ and prefer using the pioneer's PIO audio caps that are still around as appliance 'motor start/run' along with CD horn EQ to flatten it and with my hearing haven't ever needed a super tweeter**, plus prefer a lower XO point/slope and separately mounted for easy tweaking if desired. As for cosmetics, the '40s era 612 utility/ monitor cab.
* need to find my sketch or you can figure it from this factory drawing
** Dan Trainer's now long ago built, 'tightened' up, M19 w/super tweeter
Model 19 looks alright, very 70's
Never had the matching Yacht to go
with it.
Think it inspires custom cab no grill.
No recess for grill like original.
Just a very very wide baffle and Horn
mounted closer. Wood Finish.
Just inspiration for wood cabinet.
basically very wide baffle no grill.
Round ports.
Women tend to not like Deep Red
Wood like Mahogany or Cherry.
So yep, that is the color I want.
Hah Hah.
Never had the matching Yacht to go
with it.
Think it inspires custom cab no grill.
No recess for grill like original.
Just a very very wide baffle and Horn
mounted closer. Wood Finish.
Just inspiration for wood cabinet.
basically very wide baffle no grill.
Round ports.
Women tend to not like Deep Red
Wood like Mahogany or Cherry.
So yep, that is the color I want.
Hah Hah.
GM you beat me too it 🙂
Didnt see your post yet.
Basically what I was thinking a Model19 inspired build.
But tighter spacing for the horn.
And thinking same thing.
Additional smaller horn added.
His baffle not wide, still like the wide baffle
for crossover design. Like the original 19
but less space between drivers.
Likely yes new designed crossover
@GM
We are on the same page the 1940s one. I was thinking at first a cabinet similar to what you described (18.5inW x30inH x17inD)
Driver up a bit higher, ported and similar to the 612.
Does that sound about right?
I can start with active crossovers and play around until I find what works then build from there.
Thought I’d probably wind up pretty close to the m19 values tho anyway.
@WhiteDragon
Altecs and Yacht Rock is what it’s all about man. Lol
We are on the same page the 1940s one. I was thinking at first a cabinet similar to what you described (18.5inW x30inH x17inD)
Driver up a bit higher, ported and similar to the 612.
Does that sound about right?
I can start with active crossovers and play around until I find what works then build from there.
Thought I’d probably wind up pretty close to the m19 values tho anyway.
@WhiteDragon
Altecs and Yacht Rock is what it’s all about man. Lol
Probably as mentioned to quickly get up and running
With Iconic cab and horn on top.
Spacing is likely relatively closer to the Model 19.
Use affordable coils, basic caps.
But after running and listening.
( probably cry a little in happiness, roll few favorite albums)
Likely endeavor custom crossover build / with measurements.
And blow the big bucks after dialing it in.
* 17.25", 2" IF you use the GPA 1200 Hz XO, otherwise it's a function of the point/slope or put it where you want and use DSP to time correct them.
It's 42" + Horn x 30" x 24", ~460 lbs loaded up IIRC, but only ~160 lbs if using the cheap plywood they built the 825 with.
I’m thinking on these dimensions
29.5"h x 23.5”w x 17.5”d
If that works.
What’s the recommendation for bracing and stuffing? Minimal? Or stuff it? I read where GPA stuffed a Valencia with polyfill for increased performance.
29.5"h x 23.5”w x 17.5”d
If that works.
What’s the recommendation for bracing and stuffing? Minimal? Or stuff it? I read where GPA stuffed a Valencia with polyfill for increased performance.
Just coming back to this before I finalize and order my Baltic Birch.
What about a 620 type enclosure?
Something around 7cuft?
What about a 620 type enclosure?
Something around 7cuft?
There's lots of ways to brace 'properly' depending on whose definition, but all that's normally required is to break up large panels with simple offset vertical risers tied together with an 'x' framework that ties all six sides together to keep it from 'breathing' and braces the driver to be as one with the cab, so look at Dave p10's various designs for inspiration.
The pioneers in general and Altec in particular only damped one side, top, back of vented alignments with the understanding that 'top' meant the opposite end from the vent end, so for the original Iconic/846A this meant the bottom of the cab since the horn was in the reflex vent at the top.
Regardless, if wanting a true 'original' sound speaker, just google the various models and copy them, which means minimal bracing, damping that varied in type/density over time based primarily on cost reduction and screwed on panels with no gasketing!
In short, best to damp to personal 'taste' in room and if wanting some consistency use the pioneer's simple 'click' test.
Re cab types, just depends on the components, XO used or whatever 'floats yer boat'. 😉 Me, I always chose based on the needs of the app, which normally meant a custom if the buyer didn't want a replica of some existing design, though often had to 'pay lip service' to a particular style such as the M19's and 846B cabs.
The pioneers in general and Altec in particular only damped one side, top, back of vented alignments with the understanding that 'top' meant the opposite end from the vent end, so for the original Iconic/846A this meant the bottom of the cab since the horn was in the reflex vent at the top.
Regardless, if wanting a true 'original' sound speaker, just google the various models and copy them, which means minimal bracing, damping that varied in type/density over time based primarily on cost reduction and screwed on panels with no gasketing!
In short, best to damp to personal 'taste' in room and if wanting some consistency use the pioneer's simple 'click' test.
Re cab types, just depends on the components, XO used or whatever 'floats yer boat'. 😉 Me, I always chose based on the needs of the app, which normally meant a custom if the buyer didn't want a replica of some existing design, though often had to 'pay lip service' to a particular style such as the M19's and 846B cabs.
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Awesome GM! Thank you. And that is the plan. Solid minimal bracing and damping with natural sheep’s wool. Just torn between a “620” size or a “612”.
Crossover I’m starting with the Model 19 GPA passive to get up and running.
So 620 or 612?
Crossover I’m starting with the Model 19 GPA passive to get up and running.
So 620 or 612?
My condolences 🙂 . First thing I would do is to check out Ebay prices to figure out were to flip them. But feel free to frustrate yourself for few years before you eventualy do it. We all did it , didn't we ? So why You should have a break ...
You're welcome!
612 is a studio monitor, 620 a bigger studio monitor, so more bass potential and if for me, then the 620 + it puts the woofer/horn higher up, though again I'd be doing a custom variant to put the woofer at my seated ear height and also would be basing overall height on the woofer and vent each being at one of the cab's odd harmonic modes, which most folks would choose as the extreme top, bottom positions where its pipe resonant 'action' is highest (greatest acoustic gain/damping).
612 is a studio monitor, 620 a bigger studio monitor, so more bass potential and if for me, then the 620 + it puts the woofer/horn higher up, though again I'd be doing a custom variant to put the woofer at my seated ear height and also would be basing overall height on the woofer and vent each being at one of the cab's odd harmonic modes, which most folks would choose as the extreme top, bottom positions where its pipe resonant 'action' is highest (greatest acoustic gain/damping).
Altec drivers are magnificent in 4-5 way designs neither you nor I can muster . Maybe GM can but don't kid yourself you can get anything worthy starting with piles of drivers and asking basic questions . It's not going to happen . Yeah , I know roofers here with Altec nostalgia in garage hurting no one but innocent kids . Well no harm in this really. Grow up guys.