PLEASE! do not take this as cheap shot against full range speakers, but some people are saying a 4 inch driver in the proper box sounds as good or better than a $1000 retail speaker. Does that mean I can build a low end B&W for less than $200? If so here we go!
Well, I have seen a retail $7000 speaker that uses the same woofer and tweeters I used in my DIYer. Is mine as good as theirs? Maybe, probably not quite, but they are damn good, made by me, so my personal bias matters and the drivers only cost me a couple of hundred bucks.
So, it isn't the driver cost, most speakers have components costing in the range of hundreds, yet the final product costs thousands. It is what you do with them.
So, it isn't the driver cost, most speakers have components costing in the range of hundreds, yet the final product costs thousands. It is what you do with them.
I think your bench mark is too low........
For any Diy, full range or not, if it is designed properly, for few hundreds of dollars it should out perform most brand name bottom dwellers......as was suggested.....try it, you might scratch mid level B&Ws off your list also.
For any Diy, full range or not, if it is designed properly, for few hundreds of dollars it should out perform most brand name bottom dwellers......as was suggested.....try it, you might scratch mid level B&Ws off your list also.
The $150 I spent on my first pair of 2-ways ($65 of which was maple veneer, two 4" drivers & 2 1" tweeters were $60 total) gave me speakers that blew the heck out of anything I had ever heard in any store (granted, I avoid boutique audio stores like the plague).
Can they compete with multi-thousand$ sets of high end stuff? Technically, they are likely inferior. However, they beat any $500 or less setup I have heard (excluding other DIY ones).
Just build some, you will see.
Can they compete with multi-thousand$ sets of high end stuff? Technically, they are likely inferior. However, they beat any $500 or less setup I have heard (excluding other DIY ones).
Just build some, you will see.
Ok, I will try it. Budget $200 Goal $1000 speakers! Name the wood and speakers. By the way I am in Canada so Creative Sound would be best for me.
One has to realise that speaker design and performance is always a matter of trade-offs and compromise. Multi-way and fullrange both have things they do much better than the other and their own sets of strenghts and weaknesses. Simply stating that one speaker sounds better than another requires a fixed definition of "better", which is not really possible as it's all very subjective and usually up to the individual's preferences.
That said, you are totally encouraged to try your hands at building a fullrange speaker. I suggest you read around quite a bit before doing anything and get a feeling of what would work best for you in terms of speaker size, type and the associated enclosure.
Good luck and remember, have fun!
IG
Building and playing music through a fullrange speaker is a really unique experience, and worth the $200 alone. There definitely is magic in the sound. The thousand dollar sound is just a bonus 🙂
Check out Planet10 speakers with Fostex or Mark Audio drivers. They will be even better, if you use Planet10-modified versions of the drivers, which is a bargain as you are in Canada.
planet_10 hifi
planet_10 hifi
and
The Spawn Family of Double Horns
Your reaction towards fullrange speakers will depend a lot on your taste in music and your listening style. What is your proposed listening setup? what kind of music do you like? what is your average listening level?
cheers,
mymindinside
cheers,
mymindinside
Mainly it depends on box construction ,and what's your target .
I just finished a project with everything taken from the trash .I wasn't satisfied by the 4"
(4 ohm-8w typical low quality for plastic stereos...) so I added a 3.5" on the top in dipole
(same "class" as the other ) ,so now each is doing its duty ,simply first order crossed .
This is a true 0$ loudspeaker ...well ,hot glue has a minimum cost .
I just finished a project with everything taken from the trash .I wasn't satisfied by the 4"
(4 ohm-8w typical low quality for plastic stereos...) so I added a 3.5" on the top in dipole
(same "class" as the other ) ,so now each is doing its duty ,simply first order crossed .
This is a true 0$ loudspeaker ...well ,hot glue has a minimum cost .
My Tangband W4-655 in Cyburg sticks sounds much much much better than the most expansive B&W "loudspeaker". B&W speakers are smeared, muddy, slow, transient killers, lifeless without any space or 3D effect.
If you don't like fullrangers than go for Spendor, Harbeth or Rogers.
B&W? Oh please...
If you don't like fullrangers than go for Spendor, Harbeth or Rogers.
B&W? Oh please...
How large a speaker are you willing to live with? i built these - Sachikos and am loving them. Internals here . Being an 8" driver the sweet spot is a bit small but otherwise there is little to fault them on.
A similar design using a 4" driver is the Saburo
do some research and i'm sure you will find something that suits you
Cheers,
mymindinside
A similar design using a 4" driver is the Saburo
do some research and i'm sure you will find something that suits you
Cheers,
mymindinside
I have been playing with a bunch of 3-4" drivers in a MLK Open Baffle setup, biamped.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf
So far, Tested Radio Shack NOS 1197's, Old Foster 10F3's, Fostex FF85ks
This weekend I will put in Mark Audio's CHR70's.
Of the top three, the Fostex FF85k is a real-gem, and does low end in a small bass reflex box.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf
So far, Tested Radio Shack NOS 1197's, Old Foster 10F3's, Fostex FF85ks
This weekend I will put in Mark Audio's CHR70's.
Of the top three, the Fostex FF85k is a real-gem, and does low end in a small bass reflex box.
LOL about the B&W bashing! I have a pair at home that retailed for $999. The Pioneer B20 with piezo sounds better and cost less than $100 to build.
The full range driver thing sounds good bc of the purity of sound they offer. No crossover and less listening fatigue... tho some full rangers can be fatiguing if they are too bright. Unless that's important to you, the small full range driver may not satisfy. They don't do deep bass well unless in more complicated and usually large cabinets (but then you get your bass and the purity of sound). They don't always shimmer in the treble rather having soft sounding top octaves.
The B&W i have sounds muddy and dull. I think there was a time people thought that was accurate.
The full range driver thing sounds good bc of the purity of sound they offer. No crossover and less listening fatigue... tho some full rangers can be fatiguing if they are too bright. Unless that's important to you, the small full range driver may not satisfy. They don't do deep bass well unless in more complicated and usually large cabinets (but then you get your bass and the purity of sound). They don't always shimmer in the treble rather having soft sounding top octaves.
The B&W i have sounds muddy and dull. I think there was a time people thought that was accurate.
Attachments
Give it a go and enjoy the journey!
I have built some full range speakers using the Radio Shack 40-1354 driver in a Bob Brine designed cabinet (use them as my main HT speakers) and just recently a Pioneer B20 in a Radio Shack T-100 cabinet that I made some slight modifications to like ports and a piezo tweeter (use mainly as my audio listening speakers). The B20's get down to the high 30's for bass and when played at moderate listening levels with my HLLY Tripath amp do extremely well for me. I also have many decent vintage multi-driver speakers (Advent, Pioneer, Kenwood, AR, Insignia) that I listen to, but I always come back to the full rangers to listen to because I think they hit the right mix for me and my preferred music (jazz, vocals, classical guitar, 70's hits and some classical rock).
NOTE - one thing I have really noticed is that your amp will really affect how your full range will sound. I have discovered that D class amps (i.e. T amps included) and tube amps work really well with full range drivers. They seem to be more synergistic.
I have built some full range speakers using the Radio Shack 40-1354 driver in a Bob Brine designed cabinet (use them as my main HT speakers) and just recently a Pioneer B20 in a Radio Shack T-100 cabinet that I made some slight modifications to like ports and a piezo tweeter (use mainly as my audio listening speakers). The B20's get down to the high 30's for bass and when played at moderate listening levels with my HLLY Tripath amp do extremely well for me. I also have many decent vintage multi-driver speakers (Advent, Pioneer, Kenwood, AR, Insignia) that I listen to, but I always come back to the full rangers to listen to because I think they hit the right mix for me and my preferred music (jazz, vocals, classical guitar, 70's hits and some classical rock).
NOTE - one thing I have really noticed is that your amp will really affect how your full range will sound. I have discovered that D class amps (i.e. T amps included) and tube amps work really well with full range drivers. They seem to be more synergistic.
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Not the first time I hear of T-amps being a good match for fullrange. I have no experience and very little knowledge about them. What kind of output impedance are we talking aobut here?
IG
Also note that your room and how you treat it, physically or digitally. For example, my BIB with Fostex 208 sigmas are huge and are full of great bass, but my big open and irregular room sucks out all of it. Still sounds great, just not the impact I would have in a smaller room. In this room I probably need a more direct bass source like a dedicated sub.
A current source amp (i use a DIY First Watt F2) helps the sound across the spectrum, notably in the bass. The output impedance is 11ohms
cheers,
mymindinside
cheers,
mymindinside
@Godzilla:
Only German speakers like Canton are worse than B&W. Canton = the most rhythm killing speakers of all time. Canton = no mids, muddy & too much bass, disgusting & too much highs. You can play what you want everything sounds like a German wehrmacht marching band
Only German speakers like Canton are worse than B&W. Canton = the most rhythm killing speakers of all time. Canton = no mids, muddy & too much bass, disgusting & too much highs. You can play what you want everything sounds like a German wehrmacht marching band
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