I learnt of Class A2 only the other day
What are the catches, how much more $?? Is bulb life shortened?
How do you know if a tube is suited?
In particular would TJ’s premium 300B+ Premium Graphite Plate – normally capable of 16-18 watts with 450 volts B+ www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_tj_tubes.htm be suitable for running class A2 and doubling output to around 35 watts?
. . datasheet (apologies for crude truncation to get within forum size limits) attached
googling reveals:
"Class A2/AB2/or B2 requires a very low impedance, transformer-coupled or DC-coupled driver stage . . .
The disadvantage is the extra complexity of the output stage required to source current to drive the output tube grids into the positive region."
Many more/ more expensive parts in the output stage?
Thanks
What are the catches, how much more $?? Is bulb life shortened?
How do you know if a tube is suited?
In particular would TJ’s premium 300B+ Premium Graphite Plate – normally capable of 16-18 watts with 450 volts B+ www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_tj_tubes.htm be suitable for running class A2 and doubling output to around 35 watts?
. . datasheet (apologies for crude truncation to get within forum size limits) attached
googling reveals:
"Class A2/AB2/or B2 requires a very low impedance, transformer-coupled or DC-coupled driver stage . . .
The disadvantage is the extra complexity of the output stage required to source current to drive the output tube grids into the positive region."
Many more/ more expensive parts in the output stage?
Thanks
Attachments
Never heard of 300B in A2, and I have my doubts.
Usually, higher µ triodes like 211 are driven this way.
If you want 35W, aim for PSE. Besides, A2 is a mess to work with.
Usually, higher µ triodes like 211 are driven this way.
If you want 35W, aim for PSE. Besides, A2 is a mess to work with.
300B is too expensive/hyped/1337 (not l337, which would be a good thing) to use grid current. Or any plate dissipation within 10% of its actual rating.
I thought a PSE would be only about 16 watts eg Andrea Ciuffoli’s www.audiodesignguide.com/my/pse2.html “14 watts”.
Fuling, to get 35W are you thinking of four 300Bs a side??
It might be better to use a different DHT, eg PP 211s or ?
Budget is not massive – how messy / exxy is an A2 211?
What’s the “l337”?
Cheers
Fuling, to get 35W are you thinking of four 300Bs a side??
It might be better to use a different DHT, eg PP 211s or ?
Budget is not massive – how messy / exxy is an A2 211?
What’s the “l337”?
Cheers
Konnichiwa,
Class A2 relies on driving the Grid significantly positive, this means significant grid current flows. That clearly has implications in the driverstage. Usually Class A2 amplifiers (that is amplifiers designed to work in Class A2 by design for significant levels of the power range) clipp harder than Class A1 Amplifiers optimised for good overload behaviour.
It also means using an operation condition that has a comparably low anode voltage for the used valve combined with above average current. High cathode current means more wear on the cathode and thus reduced life.
As for "how do you know a Valve is suited", you know if the valve has a rating for grid current that includes a significant level of grid current. The original 300B is rated for no more than 1mA Gridcurrent, so it should not be driven into class A2/AB2.
Modern replicas and "super 300B's" generally do not specify gridcurrent limits, but i would suggest that by design the grids of these valves are not meant to dissipate significant power, so in effect these are not suited for Class A2/AB2 operation, except occasionally on peaks.
Finally, if you try to wring 35W from a 300B+ using A2 you will have made the amplifier considerably more complex, most likely with a negative impact on sound quality and all that for at best less than 3db more SPL (Doubling power = 3db more SPL).
I believe you would get the same increase in average ludness by making the clipping on peaks less audible, which means you need to design the amplifier for best overload recovery. I take it as read and understood that in most cases the audible problems of clipping (regardless of SE Amp or not) are not due to the actual clipped transient with music, but the "fallout" from the clipping, which depending on the amplifier can take many forms, including "latchup" for a short (but audible) time period, which is equivalent to briefly interrupting the music.
There are Valves that work only well in Class A2 and deliberate Class A2 operation should be confined to them. For a conventional Amplifier, using Valves designed for Class A1 operation the best route IMHO is to optimise the overload recovery, which usally also adds a little guilt and costfree Class A2 operation on the highest peaks anyway.
Sayonara
rick57 said:
Class A2 relies on driving the Grid significantly positive, this means significant grid current flows. That clearly has implications in the driverstage. Usually Class A2 amplifiers (that is amplifiers designed to work in Class A2 by design for significant levels of the power range) clipp harder than Class A1 Amplifiers optimised for good overload behaviour.
It also means using an operation condition that has a comparably low anode voltage for the used valve combined with above average current. High cathode current means more wear on the cathode and thus reduced life.
As for "how do you know a Valve is suited", you know if the valve has a rating for grid current that includes a significant level of grid current. The original 300B is rated for no more than 1mA Gridcurrent, so it should not be driven into class A2/AB2.
Modern replicas and "super 300B's" generally do not specify gridcurrent limits, but i would suggest that by design the grids of these valves are not meant to dissipate significant power, so in effect these are not suited for Class A2/AB2 operation, except occasionally on peaks.
Finally, if you try to wring 35W from a 300B+ using A2 you will have made the amplifier considerably more complex, most likely with a negative impact on sound quality and all that for at best less than 3db more SPL (Doubling power = 3db more SPL).
I believe you would get the same increase in average ludness by making the clipping on peaks less audible, which means you need to design the amplifier for best overload recovery. I take it as read and understood that in most cases the audible problems of clipping (regardless of SE Amp or not) are not due to the actual clipped transient with music, but the "fallout" from the clipping, which depending on the amplifier can take many forms, including "latchup" for a short (but audible) time period, which is equivalent to briefly interrupting the music.
There are Valves that work only well in Class A2 and deliberate Class A2 operation should be confined to them. For a conventional Amplifier, using Valves designed for Class A1 operation the best route IMHO is to optimise the overload recovery, which usally also adds a little guilt and costfree Class A2 operation on the highest peaks anyway.
Sayonara
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