I'm wanting to 'build' a sealed subwoofer for home audio use, a bit like the Bazooka car audio subs, only on a bigger basis, with dual 15s, in a cylinder, standing upright. So the drivers need to be able to work horizontally rather than vertically.
Enclosure is roughly 130L. Will be powered by a separate stereo amplifier.
Im looking for deep(ish) bass but don't care for profoundly deep, would rather it was musical, quick.
What I need to know is this: are there drivers that are purpose built for sealed enclosures, and if so what might work? Not interested in wildly expensive drivers, but equally don't want cheapo rubbish either.
Would entertain the concept of pro drivers.
My existing speakers are sealed, full range drivers, 96dB, with Heils as supertweeters.
Does anyone have any experience with building such an animal?
I currently have a similar set-up with 12s, which is good, but looking for just a bit more impact.
Cheers
Luigi
Enclosure is roughly 130L. Will be powered by a separate stereo amplifier.
Im looking for deep(ish) bass but don't care for profoundly deep, would rather it was musical, quick.
What I need to know is this: are there drivers that are purpose built for sealed enclosures, and if so what might work? Not interested in wildly expensive drivers, but equally don't want cheapo rubbish either.
Would entertain the concept of pro drivers.
My existing speakers are sealed, full range drivers, 96dB, with Heils as supertweeters.
Does anyone have any experience with building such an animal?
I currently have a similar set-up with 12s, which is good, but looking for just a bit more impact.
Cheers
Luigi
Do a search on "sonotube subwoofer" and you'll see many examples.
If you post more info / a photo of your current "similar set-up with 12s", that might help recommendations for "a bit more impact". Maybe you could modify what you have rather than start over.
If you post more info / a photo of your current "similar set-up with 12s", that might help recommendations for "a bit more impact". Maybe you could modify what you have rather than start over.
Had a search for that, but they all seem to be single-driver units, not duals.
The sealed 12-inch dual sub proves to me that a compact system can work, now I just want to prove it can be carried to its logical conclusion without becoming too big using dual 15s.
I have tried this with the two 15s I have on hand; these are Acoustic elegance examples but they are optimised for open baffle. And they really dont work in a sealed box.
I also have a pair of 15-inch infinite baffle drivers and these too don't work in a sealed sub. So I know what doesn't work.
Just wanting to know if others have tried this and what drivers might work well.
Cheers
Luigi
The sealed 12-inch dual sub proves to me that a compact system can work, now I just want to prove it can be carried to its logical conclusion without becoming too big using dual 15s.
I have tried this with the two 15s I have on hand; these are Acoustic elegance examples but they are optimised for open baffle. And they really dont work in a sealed box.
I also have a pair of 15-inch infinite baffle drivers and these too don't work in a sealed sub. So I know what doesn't work.
Just wanting to know if others have tried this and what drivers might work well.
Cheers
Luigi
A Google search on "dual opposed sonotube" gets me a few hits - this projects looks nice:
SSD-15 Dual Opposed Vertical Sub Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
As well as the usual numbers (Fs, VAS, Qts, efficiency), you should probably check any potential 15" drivers for % of sag in this orientation.
What size enclosure are you thinking of? I think you'd have to go a lot bigger than the original 130L to get a substantial gain.
What exactly do you mean by 'impact'?
What are the 12" drivers you are using now? If they are easily available and you know they work well, I'd be tempted to make another of your existing enclosures, and run 4x12".
Also: are you already using DSP / eq / room treatment / a measuring mic? How low and loud does the existing sub go?
I used to run a pair of sealed 12", and have moved up to multiple sealed 15", but I think getting a mic+DSP and dealing with room acoustics & eq were a bigger issue than the diameter of the drivers.
SSD-15 Dual Opposed Vertical Sub Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
As well as the usual numbers (Fs, VAS, Qts, efficiency), you should probably check any potential 15" drivers for % of sag in this orientation.
What size enclosure are you thinking of? I think you'd have to go a lot bigger than the original 130L to get a substantial gain.
What exactly do you mean by 'impact'?
What are the 12" drivers you are using now? If they are easily available and you know they work well, I'd be tempted to make another of your existing enclosures, and run 4x12".
Also: are you already using DSP / eq / room treatment / a measuring mic? How low and loud does the existing sub go?
I used to run a pair of sealed 12", and have moved up to multiple sealed 15", but I think getting a mic+DSP and dealing with room acoustics & eq were a bigger issue than the diameter of the drivers.
one of the terms ive heard used which seems to have a lot of meaning with subwoofers is "room lock" in which the sub seems topressurize enough air that the sub doesnt seem to "sit over there".
as to impact this might be what your looking for, a sensation of pressure rather than sound.
how big is your room?
also as to driver speed if you use a larger driver then the driver will have to travel a shorter distance to move the same amount of air. this might contribute positively to the experience you are looking for.
Sealed boxes tend to have lower group delay, benefiting transient response, though not always.
as to impact this might be what your looking for, a sensation of pressure rather than sound.
how big is your room?
also as to driver speed if you use a larger driver then the driver will have to travel a shorter distance to move the same amount of air. this might contribute positively to the experience you are looking for.
Sealed boxes tend to have lower group delay, benefiting transient response, though not always.
The 12s I got from Apex Jr quite some years ago; I think they were originally made by Lambda. Dont know much else about them.
Pondering things, maybe what I should do is use the 130L enclosure I already have and stuff the opposing 12s into that. Not a big issue to give it a lash at any rate. The existing enclosure is just over half of that, around 70L.
No, not using any of that; the only equalisation I have is at the amp level; it is a Gallo Ref 3 subwoofer amp, good for about 250wpc per side; certainly enough to make a noise. Impact? Thinking of room loading and dB. What I like about sealed subs is they load the room and not the whole house.
Pondering things, maybe what I should do is use the 130L enclosure I already have and stuff the opposing 12s into that. Not a big issue to give it a lash at any rate. The existing enclosure is just over half of that, around 70L.
No, not using any of that; the only equalisation I have is at the amp level; it is a Gallo Ref 3 subwoofer amp, good for about 250wpc per side; certainly enough to make a noise. Impact? Thinking of room loading and dB. What I like about sealed subs is they load the room and not the whole house.
I misunderstood - I thought the originals were 130L.
Moving your existing drivers sounds like a great idea. For ~random 12" drivers, 70L for a pair is really small.
For example, if yours were the Lambda SB12 drivers,
Qts : 0.56
Vas : 160 Liters
Fs : 20.9 Hz
...70L for a pair would be quite tiny, so the larger volume would suit them, dropping the system Q from about 1.3 to 1.0
Then I'd suggest, for 1% of the price of that amp, picking up a mic and optimising what you have, rather than getting your 3rd set of 15" drivers 🙂
This little thing + AudioTool or a similar app should be only ~NZ$30 total, and will take a lot of the guesswork out of what you're doing (assuming you already have a smartphone and/or tablet).
Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for Tablets iPhone iPad and Android
You can spend more (and you should if you want to store and compare lots of graphs), but for sub setup, that mic and AudioTool are really all you need.
After my last move, I went from quite bad (sloppy / boomy) to quite good bass without an equipment change - I just changed room setup and adjusted levels.
Moving the 12" drivers to a bigger enclosure should help with the former, but not the latter.
The only time I've experienced anything like this is in a partially open plan place. The listening room was ~cubical, and was boomy around 50Hz, so the bass seemed to diminish oddly rapidly with distance. That was more of a room problem than anything to do with the enclosure type.
Cant really change room set-up in terms of where the sub can go; only one practical location so that's what I'm stuck with. So it goes.
Am in the middle of changing from the 70 to 130L enclosure for the dual 12-inch drivers. Will finish that tonight; happened to have enough wood lying around to change the endcaps to suit the smaller drivers. That's the beauty of cylinder subs I guess; easy to make changes on the go.
So can comment on how things went tomorrow, all things going acc to plan. Thanks for the suggestions. Good idea to optimise what you have rather than faff around with new drivers.
Cheers
Luigi
Am in the middle of changing from the 70 to 130L enclosure for the dual 12-inch drivers. Will finish that tonight; happened to have enough wood lying around to change the endcaps to suit the smaller drivers. That's the beauty of cylinder subs I guess; easy to make changes on the go.
So can comment on how things went tomorrow, all things going acc to plan. Thanks for the suggestions. Good idea to optimise what you have rather than faff around with new drivers.
Cheers
Luigi
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