"Two people can use a tape measure and both agree that a door is 72" high."
The fact that two people use a measuring tape with a scale to measure a door that they have to recognize by contrast is a highly complex, socially and culturally evolved habit. We are unaware of all the prior knowledge and the common differentiation, contrasting, description and scaling. And even measuring would not work globally. Because of different scalings, languages;-)
Why don't you start small? Do your homework! And the first step would be: is a change, a differentiation audible - or not.
The quality and complex recording and description would come in a further step. A sufficiently precise language exists in audio discourse. And: we perceive by contrast and describe by contrast: to make a statement more precise, we start to name what we don't mean;-)
... which is why those who are off the mark should always be praised, because they are the ones who contrast perception and description and thus make them more precise;-)
"But when do two people ever describe their personal experience identically?"
Language is always only sufficiently precise, identical. If the involved agree on sufficient accuracy...-)
They (personal experiences) are not objectively measurable, so there is no reference standard like the inch, in the case of the door height measurement.
In that case you are getting the person's description of the experience; you are not directly measuring it, minus any distortions of the person's interpretation and wording of it.
It certainly can be that, at least if its a discrimination test. If its only a preference test then descriptive analysis would likely not be used.
For descriptive analysis its typically necessary to make sure people have a shared perceptual technical vocabulary so they can communicate accurately as possible.
The "ideal amplifier" as always being the best choice for any loudspeaker listening testing is a common idea.
In my experience loudspeakers even the very best are deeply flawed devices that have strong interaction between the amplification used and the source material played.
Loudspeakers designers have to make design choices during the design process.
One of those design choices is what amplification to use when listening to proto types of their speaker designs.
Some designers use "only the best amplification" what ever that is, to voice their speakers.
The result is a loudspeaker that will sound as the designer intended with audio equipment almost no one has or uses.
Other loudspeaker designers (myself anyway) used equipment that was representative of what most of my customers are likely to purchase in the price range of the speaker being designed. The speaker will thus sound as I intend with most end users actual equipment.
When source material transitioned from the LP to CD my speaker voicing was adjusted to account for the quite different sound characteristics of source material present on CDs. The transition from LP to CD also caused re-evaluation in what was seen to be a "good" choice for the high frequency unit for a loudspeaker. Many dome tweeters at time time sounded just fine from LP sources but were unpleasant and tiring from CD sources.
So yes I agree that the interplay between loudspeaker, amplifier and source materiel is a very important point that can be devilishly complex and subtle.
I have not even touched the listening room interaction to any one loudspeaker as that is another elephant in the room so to speak..
Yes I agree and would only add one of the important audio "devices" is the human listener. This reality has caused all sorts of conflict in the audio world.
A world consisting of frequencies, oscillations, electrophysics, highly complex, culminating in "life"... it should become clear that the human organism is a highly complex developed measuring instrument for hearing sounds, highly complex e.g. music;-) A flood of different frequencies that are related to each other, tactually (temporally) related, slightest differences and changes...
Like this;-)
... let's have a look at the amplitude of 1 KHz or even 10 kHz;-) So that we only hear the truth, so that we are not cheated;-)
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/?s=life
Like this;-)
... let's have a look at the amplitude of 1 KHz or even 10 kHz;-) So that we only hear the truth, so that we are not cheated;-)
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/?s=life
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I don't like these sterile debates where everyone puts their b-a-l-l-s on the table before speaking.
I am part of the pragmatists and I would like to ask a question (to return to the initial debate): what makes the most sense ?
An amp that measures well but sounds bad, an amp that measures poorly but sounds good ?
An amp that measures poorly but that we like or an amp that measures well but that we don't like ?
In the end, what matters? whether we like it or not.
I often compare it to art in general, a very technical and extremely well executed work may not have any effect on you, while a simple, even primitive work can give you real emotions, but in all cases, no need to be a scientist or scholar to know whether we like it or not.
I am part of the pragmatists and I would like to ask a question (to return to the initial debate): what makes the most sense ?
An amp that measures well but sounds bad, an amp that measures poorly but sounds good ?
An amp that measures poorly but that we like or an amp that measures well but that we don't like ?
In the end, what matters? whether we like it or not.
I often compare it to art in general, a very technical and extremely well executed work may not have any effect on you, while a simple, even primitive work can give you real emotions, but in all cases, no need to be a scientist or scholar to know whether we like it or not.
IMO, neither!
Most sense makes an amplifier that measures well and sounds well. Judging amplifier by only one approach, objective or subjective, is wrong. Both methods should be used, and results should be aligned.
However, what matters in the end is only do we enjoy the sound.
The subconscious mind is subject to all manner of interference from local surroundings. That’s why one can usually detect The sound is considerably better after all cellphones are taken out of the room. And better still when all clocks and watches are taken out of the room. Since it’s subconscious one can’t control the sound one hears to the extent he thinks he can. Unlike empty beer bottles in the room, they can be controlled. Ha ha
That's an interesting point.
Food industry want to sell, so they do research what most people like.
Hifi industry also want to sell. So they do research what people like.
and that may not at all be related to what sounds correct and I suspect often it may not even be related to sound.