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Old 20th March 2014, 01:29 PM   #11
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Ed what are you using for a phase plug there?
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Old 20th March 2014, 01:38 PM   #12
adason is offline adason  United States
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Thanks d to the g! Its my clone of Marantz LS-85. I just like the look of the original Marantz. I will to speaker stands later, just to make it look sleak. Right now I am not using subwoofers with Betsy, only as a stand. But eventually the subs will be added.

Yesterday I was playing with Holm Impulse, and it measures pretty well (sounds darn good too). I will post some fr responses.

I believe this is pretty good place for Betsy...after whizzerectomy and dustectomy it measures flat 50Hz to 5 kHz, which is amazing. Plus nice phase plug gives it nice rolloff without much breakup. I am running Betsy wild, no inductor, and only one cap from 5 kHz up on ribbon. So far.

I did some distortion curves by Holm Impulse, and it measures well, except the rising distortion towards low frequencies. I am not sure if that can be helped by LRC filter, or not. Problem is that values for cap and coil are quite high. I can use bipolar electrolyt, those are cheap, but I do not have the coil at hand to try it. It would be interesting to see if LRC filter will have an effect on lowering the distortion or not though.

Here is how the filter should look like:
Series Notch Filter

Re = 5.7 Ohms

fs = 50 Hz

Qes = 0.945

Qms = 4.567


Parts List

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Capacitor
C = 591.11 uF
Inductor
L = 17.15 mH
Resistor
Rc = 6.879439456973944 Ohms
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Old 20th March 2014, 01:42 PM   #13
adason is offline adason  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d to the g View Post
Ed what are you using for a phase plug there?
it's a brass leg (I believe) meant as speaker leg originally...it fits well and looks good too
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Old 20th March 2014, 11:59 PM   #14
GM is offline GM  United States
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You're welcome! Yeah, impedance compensation down in the LF is no inexpensive tweak and why I prefer the pioneer's way of using a TL to damp it down. If you have a separate pre-amp/amp, then of course you can use small values across the amp's input.

That, or go digital and use a damping resistor and/or inductor to lower its typical 'bite'/'sharpness'.

GM
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Old 21st March 2014, 12:11 AM   #15
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adason View Post
...after whizzerectomy and dustectomy it measures flat 50Hz to 5 kHz, which is amazing. Plus nice phase plug gives it nice rolloff without much breakup. I am running Betsy wild, no inductor, and only one cap from 5 kHz up on ribbon. So far.

I did some distortion curves by Holm Impulse, and it measures well, except the rising distortion towards low frequencies. I am not sure if that can be helped by LRC filter, or not.
I wonder if these are made by Eminence............. they at least use to be pretty good about making low volume sales. That, or maybe WBAL will consider either adding a new model or doing a buy.

Never had the tools back then to do much in the way of measurements, but seems like you'll be trading one type of distortion for another and all things considered, I personally prefer modest speaker distortion over large cap 'ringing', so at the least they would need damping resistors.

Seems like all this added inductance, series resistance would tend to 'suck the life' out of a high Qt speaker.

GM
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Old 21st March 2014, 12:40 AM   #16
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GM, are you discussing a buy of the whizzerless betsy? It's not something that I normally have but I've done batches of them before. The "official" Betsy wow has a dustcap, but could just as well go without if someone is adding a phase plug.

Also, please shoot me an email. I'd like to get a full res copy of that impedance plot.

Last edited by d to the g; 21st March 2014 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Cus
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Old 21st March 2014, 12:43 AM   #17
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Ed,

What's your tweeter? Or did I totally miss that?

Doug
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Old 21st March 2014, 12:51 AM   #18
adason is offline adason  United States
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Originally Posted by d to the g View Post
Ed,

What's your tweeter? Or did I totally miss that?

Doug
Peavey Versarray Ribbon Tweeter 8 Ohm | 299-465

I think this is great value...
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Old 21st March 2014, 02:16 AM   #19
adason is offline adason  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post
Never had the tools back then to do much in the way of measurements, but seems like you'll be trading one type of distortion for another and all things considered, I personally prefer modest speaker distortion over large cap 'ringing', so at the least they would need damping resistors.

Seems like all this added inductance, series resistance would tend to 'suck the life' out of a high Qt speaker.

GM
Only one way to find out. Once I get the parts to make the RLC filter, I will measure/listen before I add it on, then measure/listen again and see if there is a benefit or no. Its easily reversible, just remove the filter. Problem is I need to find out what else to order from PE.

Both, Tony Gee @humblehomemadehifi (Netherland) and Troels Gravesen @diy loudspeakers (Denmark) use the RLC filters a lot. Maybe because they have free parts or they promote purchase from sponsors, or perhaps there is a benefit to it. As I said, only one way to find out.
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Old 21st March 2014, 03:30 PM   #20
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d to the g View Post
GM, are you discussing a buy of the whizzerless betsy? It's not something that I normally have but I've done batches of them before. The "official" Betsy wow has a dustcap, but could just as well go without if someone is adding a phase plug.

Also, please shoot me an email. I'd like to get a full res copy of that impedance plot.
Hmm, so Ed's plot is actually for the whizzerless version and it's called the 'wow'?

Mine is only 71.5 kb and to me doesn't look any better blown up than the one I posted. Try Freddy, I saved it as a gif: 'Betsyksolderz'

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/priva...=newpm&u=35726

GM
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