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Wild Burro Audio DIY full range speakers from Wild Burro Audio Labs

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Old 20th November 2010, 12:59 AM   #11
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I have been mulling a OB dipole experiment, I think this could possibly work wonderfully. The graph shows excellent low frequency response, but an Fs of only 68. Is the graph based on a particular baffle. How many pairs do you have?

Zakman,
do you have a thread on your build?
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Old 20th November 2010, 01:01 AM   #12
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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I'll get back to those with shipping questions as soon as I can. I've been really busy. On a related note, between being busy and only having had these in my possession for a couple of days, I have yet to compare the whizzers! I think you could actually cut one off and glue another one on. It might be tricky, and you'd of course want to avoid getting junk in the gap, but I bet a careful hand could do it. What I'd really love to do is develop an interesting edge, but I'm not sure when I'll have the time.

BTW, from the looks of the graph, those that like hot high frequencies ("detail" and "speed") will like the big whizzer. It won't go quite as high as the smaller ones, but it has plenty of output at 10K! Hopefully they arrive soon.

Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
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Old 20th November 2010, 02:16 AM   #13
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I like a relaxed sound that has a depth and conveys a sense of space to it, to try and convey a sense of reality with the music, not overwhelmed by sharp noises or bite.

I think I'll try to get a pair, if fate allows.

- keantoken
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Old 20th November 2010, 02:43 AM   #14
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzforb View Post
I have been mulling a OB dipole experiment, I think this could possibly work wonderfully. The graph shows excellent low frequency response, but an Fs of only 68. Is the graph based on a particular baffle. How many pairs do you have?
Don't pay any attention to the low frequency performance in basic driver response graphs! (For the record, this is a standard test baffle at the factory). People email me and say, "I was thinking of getting the BetsyK, but the Betsy appears to have much better bass on the graphs". Drives me nuts! Plug the numbers into a simulation. Download a spreadsheet to simulate open baffles. It won't be perfect, but it'll give you an idea. Don't forget to think about your amplifier's output impedance. There is a reason JE could get away with some lower Qts drivers than one would assume work on an OB. . .

(On a related note, don't judge the bass of a driver meant for a box if that driver isn't in a box!)

FWIW, another pet peeve is folks focusing on the Fs. For some reason, low Fs sells speakers. I'd consider using a stiffer suspension in the Betsy/BetsyK so the boxes could be smaller, but I'm afraid nobody would buy them as the Fs would be higher. Simulate this speaker and the BetsyK in a 2 cu ft (reasonably sized) sealed box. What does that low Fs get you?

Finally, as I am also prone to repeating, single 8" fullrangers in an open baffle are no recipe for big bass. Build a large baffle and you can get into the 60's. Listen near field, and don't pump a bunch of watts through them unless you are running some sort of high pass. I think single driver OB's are wonderful, and what they do well is hard to duplicate any other way. But they certainly aren't the ideal speaker for rocking out in a big room.

sorry (sort of) to rant,

Paul
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Old 20th November 2010, 02:50 AM   #15
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Paul,
Speaking of Wild Burro! JK. Thank you for the info and insight. I was actually considering using this as a mid range paired with two woofers and a Neo3PDR or standard Neo3. Was looking at your Betsy model, but this is hard to pass up for the price. Not sure what to do about the cone as I am a newb. Considering driving the whole thing with transconductance amps. How about that for wild!
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Old 20th November 2010, 03:11 AM   #16
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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Given the bucks you are dropping on the project, you might want to consider the Betsy or BetsyK (depending on how much efficiency you need and where you plan to crossover to the woofers, the BetsyK being more efficient, the Betsy being easier to cross over lower). I want to avoid making comparisons (all of my speakers are good!), but the Betsy/BetsyK are worth the extra few bucks in a project you are spending a great deal of time and money on. (As you are a newb, I feel compelled to point out that projects always take longer than you think! For example, what started today as a quick little project for my wife turned into hours of shopping and plenty of work for tomorrow.)

By "what to do about the cone", are you referring to the whizzer? If you are using tweeters, I'd either use a phase plug (make your own or Planet10 can supply the right size, same as the Betsy/BetsyK), or you can cut the whizzers into dustcaps. If you goof up one pair, you've got more to mess with.

You may have done plenty of modeling and have something specific in mind. But unless you are looking for a narrow baffle, dollar for dollar, big woofers often look better to me than multiple little ones. I'm speaking mainly of OB, but I'm sure some of the same applies to boxes. I'm a big fan of the Jensen/Foster 15"'s from Jack Hidley. Plenty of excursion for such high efficiency, great build quality, $60! They could be fun in big boxes too. If you want an OB with no shelving, then the Alpha 15 or Goldwood 18 appear to be the way to go.

Finally, if you are looking for an extended learning experience, you could do the whole project progressively. Start with a fullranger. Then add help at one end, then the other. It would, of course, require patience, but I bet you could learn a great deal.

Paul
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Old 20th November 2010, 03:20 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by pjanda1 View Post

Finally, if you are looking for an extended learning experience, you could do the whole project progressively. Start with a fullranger. Then add help at one end, then the other. It would, of course, require patience, but I bet you could learn a great deal.

Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
Its funny you mention this as it was my most likely route. Not that you are biased, but how does the betsy stack up against the Alpair 12?
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Old 20th November 2010, 03:59 AM   #18
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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Now thats a road we won't go down here

Paul
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Old 20th November 2010, 07:11 AM   #19
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Default The Purple speaker: an $18, 8" fullrange!

Interested in knowing what the X max. and power handling of the driver is, if it is close to the Betsy I might be interested. Not so thrilled with the steel basket not having enough opening for the back wave to pass through there might be to much bounce back thru the cone under high power application. Certainly like the idea of not having the whizzer and dustcap installed, at one point I was going to inquire whether it was possible to get the Betsyk without the wizzer and dustcap.
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Old 20th November 2010, 04:13 PM   #20
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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The Purple Speaker is not a Betsy at a lower price. The Betsy and BetsyK are flat-out better. Granted, I haven't spent tons of time with the Purple, and there are probably ways one can minimize the differences. But Betsy is darn cheap in her own right, so those looking for the highest performance best go with her!

Power handling should be very similar. But, the Purple Speaker does have a lower Xmax at around 1.5mm. Notice that this is still more than some others give you! In addition, it has plenty of Xmech, and with the stiffer suspension, should be plenty physically tough.

As far as the basket goes, if you want to trade any of the speakers in the pic for the Purple and its considerably more open basket, let me know. I'll even pay shipping!

Seriously, I understand that more open baskets are ideal. But I also suspect it is something that will net you that last few percent of performance, often at a high price. But look at the Fostex 206. Or some of the smaller diameter Lowthers. Or especially the Altec! I don't think the basket will make or break you. The idea with Wild Burro Audio in general is to exploit the law of diminishing returns. For those that want the ultimate, they best be prepared to go elsewhere and pay a much higher price!

And, my experiments tend to show that the design of the speaker system matters quite a bit more than small details on the driver. It makes some folks happy to spend tons of money on really nice drivers, but often they'd get better performance from a competently designed system built around more modest constituent parts. Just my opinion,

Paul
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