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Old 25th December 2009, 09:12 PM   #21
msb64 is offline msb64  Canada
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Originally Posted by martinbls View Post
Hi Paul!

Sorry for my lazyness, but I'm not familiar with ft and inch measurements. Could you tell me the length and width of the front baffle and the side wings in cm?
Some may not be aware of it, but you can get conversions such as measurements, temperature etc. directly using google. Just type in something such as 13 inches to cm and google will directly make the conversion for you. 78 f to c would to the temperature conversion. Pretty handy feature.
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Old 25th December 2009, 09:36 PM   #22
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I don't agree with general tenor of this thread.

AAC files ripped with iTunes at 160 kbs and up, played via even a 3rd gen iPod, sound indistinguishable from the original source on my system for all the material I have tried. I would say the same goes for MP3's ripped at 193 kbs and up.

I don't bother with my CD player anymore, I use the iPod.

ABX testing by a multitude of individuals using Foobar has pretty much shown that MP3s encoded at even moderate bit rates can not be reliably distinguished from the source by most people.
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Old 26th December 2009, 12:15 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cheapskate View Post
I don't agree with general tenor of this thread.
The problem is that if you announce that you can't hear the difference then you're henceforth disqualified from having your opinion taken seriously by a wide section of the community on virtually any subject whatsoever and certainly those related to audio fidelity. I mean, if you can't even hear the difference between MP3s and lossless, then what is the ****ing point?

I'm not saying I can or I can't, I just dodge the issue by playing MP3s in the car where I insist that the background noise makes anything else pointless, and only playing CDs at home since I use the TV and DVD player for that and I generally don't use the desktop that has all the ripped MP3s for music playing so I don't have to worry that I might hear some MP3 artifact which might interfere with my enjoyment of the program material.

Most of us have a variety of DACs and codecs in use at different times. There's a hardware codec and DAC in the car CD and MP3 player, one in the bluray player, one in the DVD/freeview box, a couple in Sky boxes, a Humax freesat RX, the desktops and laptops sound cards, one in the TV that doesn't get used cause the sound is direct from all these boxes, an iPod or two, phones. In some ways it'd be nice to be able to route all the bits to some master DAC that I could lavish a load of money on, but the reality is that we accept a limited connectivity and I haven't botheed to make it possible to stream video from the home theatre intallation to the bedroom even though it's only next door and they're both on the same hardwired ethernet subnet.

The more we all have these increasing numbers of diverse systems so people are getting a bit more relaxed about technology delivering a very high level of quality everywhere.

That said, it would be premature to characterize realistic expectations of MP3 systems in general on the behaviour of a single codec and DAC.

w
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Old 26th December 2009, 03:00 AM   #24
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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Most people can't reliably distinguish white and red wine in an ABX test, let alone the expensive from the cheap. I have no interest in knowing whether or not I am one of those people. (Well, maybe a little curiousity). I'm going to not only continue drinking wine that costs more than four bucks a bottle, but I will continue to not care about ABX tests when applied to things so dependent upon the sensory perception of folks being tested. But let's not go there.

Martin, I've got to run right now, but if you want to discuss the OB design and dimensions, start a new thread! I put the driver a little above the center.

Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
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Old 26th December 2009, 03:13 AM   #25
sangram is offline sangram  India
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the background noise makes anything else pointless
I kind of agree with this statement as it applies to listening in a car. I don't even go all the way there - I have a phone that transmits music over the air (FM) and I tune in on the radio in the dash unit. Sound quality is (relatively) quite poor, but because of traffic noise and road rumble, you can't make out the difference anyway.

I'm pretty much a purist at home with a pretty nice stereo and I wouldn't be caught dead listening to MP3 of anything I have available in a higher resolution format.

But we have a lot of original artists who do not release in anything else than MP3 because they only distribute via the web...

eg Nights in Satin Karma, a very nicely mixed rock album that is released only in 192kbps MP3 on the internet (Edit: just noticed Warren added FLAC/ALAC recently). I have a friend who is releasing his first EP soon, and that is MP3/web-only too - no CD, no FLAC, just 2 bucks for the whole album. For that kind of stuff, there's not much choice.

When I'm sitting down for a critical listening session though, MP3 don't cut it. Even at 320kbps - FLAC is far better. IMO, you just need the right equipment, but once you have it, the higher resolution makes MP3s sound terrible.

Last edited by sangram; 26th December 2009 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 26th December 2009, 03:35 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Friends don't let friends listen to MP3s...

dave
For reference, Dave and ChrisB are the only two people I know IRL to be able to consistently and repeatedly be able to tell the mp3 from lossless tracks on random CD's. They are THE goldern ears

Cheers!
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Old 26th December 2009, 02:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by wakibaki View Post
The problem is that if you announce that you can't hear the difference then you're henceforth disqualified from having your opinion taken seriously by a wide section of the community on virtually any subject whatsoever and certainly those related to audio fidelity. I mean, if you can't even hear the difference between MP3s and lossless, then what is the ****ing point?
w
The point for me is to know I can dispense with use of a CD player that cost 6 times what my iPod did and instead use a device that is far more convenient in all respects, without sacrificing any fidelity.

If the wide section of the community you refer to have not actually performed an ABX test, their opinions are simply subjective and I would give them no more credence than I would if they were claiming the possession of paranormal powers.

What is the ***ing point in placing any value on an opinion that contradicts objective listening test results?

I think it might be interesting if the Op could let us know what bitrate the tracks on the CD in question where encoded at. I can hear a difference between an original source and low bit rate MP3s
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Old 26th December 2009, 02:37 PM   #28
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The curious thing is, my experience is roughly the opposite of yours - through an iPod, I have difficulty distinguishing high and low bitrate files, but I can easily distinguish an iPod from a decent source (my standard reference is a Wolfson WM8501 based DAC, the AMB Gamma-1, which is cheap in itself).

Granted, I haven't rigorously ABXed it, because I don't own an iPod. I do own a Sony MP3 player which I have never considered as a high quality source, so I'm not interested in testing it as one.
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Old 26th December 2009, 09:51 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by wakibaki View Post
The problem is that if you announce that you can't hear the difference then you're henceforth disqualified from having your opinion taken seriously by a wide section of the community on virtually any subject whatsoever and certainly those related to audio fidelity. I mean, if you can't even hear the difference between MP3s and lossless, then what is the ****ing point?
Well, I should have said 'I can't hear the difference if it's 320 or up'. 128 files are weak in the treble and overall blurry and just sound 'low-fi' to me.

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Originally Posted by wakibaki View Post
I just dodge the issue by playing MP3s in the car where I insist that the background noise makes anything else pointless,
True. I gave up car audio a long time ago. But it was quite a money sucker for a decade or so! Eventually I realized unless I buy a six-figure camper home, I'm unlikely the hear any sort of fidelity on the road.
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