Dude...
Feedback is taken after the output filter, so "problems" caused by the filter are corrected by feedback. This is how Hypex amplifiers, and Ncore specifically, can achieve low output impedance into many different load situations. You cannot just look at the filter attributes and suggest it might cause issues.
Feedback is taken after the output filter, so "problems" caused by the filter are corrected by feedback. This is how Hypex amplifiers, and Ncore specifically, can achieve low output impedance into many different load situations. You cannot just look at the filter attributes and suggest it might cause issues.
I only commented only the info I found and I did not suggest anything.
Btw, others Marantz amps, class AB, with HDAM modules do not have that weird response on the THD+N graphic -> now I SUGGEST that the responsible is the NC500 module.
Wzmacniacze stereo - testy sprzętu marki: MARANTZ | Testy w Audio.com.pl
If I remember correctly, Hypex justified the use of a lot of feedback to get very low distortion.
Hypex Electronics B.V.
It is only a matter of time before Amirm measures an amplifier with the NC500.
Btw, others Marantz amps, class AB, with HDAM modules do not have that weird response on the THD+N graphic -> now I SUGGEST that the responsible is the NC500 module.
Wzmacniacze stereo - testy sprzętu marki: MARANTZ | Testy w Audio.com.pl
If I remember correctly, Hypex justified the use of a lot of feedback to get very low distortion.
Hypex Electronics B.V.
It is only a matter of time before Amirm measures an amplifier with the NC500.
Last edited:
"If I remember correctly, Hypex justified the use of a lot of feedback to get very low distortion."
I would not say that Hypex even tries to justify the use of large amounts of feedback, they make no excuses for feedback at all, in fact Bruno Putzeys has stated that it is precisely because of the use of large amounts of feedback that the Ncore amplifiers have superb performance.
Anyone who ascribes to the audiophile myth of feedback being "bad" somehow should never consider a Hypex amplifier. Of course, all one has to do is listen to them to be convinced that feedback is not a "bad" thing...
I would not say that Hypex even tries to justify the use of large amounts of feedback, they make no excuses for feedback at all, in fact Bruno Putzeys has stated that it is precisely because of the use of large amounts of feedback that the Ncore amplifiers have superb performance.
Anyone who ascribes to the audiophile myth of feedback being "bad" somehow should never consider a Hypex amplifier. Of course, all one has to do is listen to them to be convinced that feedback is not a "bad" thing...
Bel Canto Black ACI 600, with Hypex NC1200
Thanks to ryanmh1, here other commercial amp with Hypex nCore modules. Must be the nc1200.
Bel Canto Design Black ACI 600 integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Fig.7 Bel Canto Black ACI 600, analog input, distortion (%) vs 1kHz continuous output power into 8 ohms.
Fig.8 Bel Canto Black ACI 600, analog input, distortion (%) vs 1kHz continuous output power into 4 ohms.
Thanks to ryanmh1, here other commercial amp with Hypex nCore modules. Must be the nc1200.
Bel Canto Design Black ACI 600 integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Fig.7 Bel Canto Black ACI 600, analog input, distortion (%) vs 1kHz continuous output power into 8 ohms.
Fig.8 Bel Canto Black ACI 600, analog input, distortion (%) vs 1kHz continuous output power into 4 ohms.
No. It's NC500 in ACI 600. It can clearly be seen here:
Bel Canto Design -- Bel Canto Black ACI 600 Internal Technology
NC1200 is an old and not available unit. It has been replaced by NC500 for that matter.
Don't blame the amplifier if the implemention was fu**** up.
Please first and only compare IMD spectrum graphs of analog vs digital inputs in order to exclude analog stage contribution away from bare amplifier performance before making conclusions about NCore amplifier's performance. It is clearly seen from IMD behaviour that analog input is crap or heavy nonlinearities were left there intentionally (aka in-house Bel Canto audiophile-grade sound).
Bel Canto Design -- Bel Canto Black ACI 600 Internal Technology
They seem the NC500. But the graphs are very different! And the values.
Marantz, THD 0.1% and 8 Ohms: about 160 watts
Marantz, THD 0.1% and 4 Ohms: about 290 watts
Bel Canto, THD 0.1% and 8 Ohms: about 290 watts
Bel Canto, THD 0.1% and 4 Ohms: about 300 watts
Maybe the key is a different PSU (s).
Marantz has this little SMPS. Hypex with heatsinks over the big caps.
They seem the NC500. But the graphs are very different! And the values.
Marantz, THD 0.1% and 8 Ohms: about 160 watts
Marantz, THD 0.1% and 4 Ohms: about 290 watts
Bel Canto, THD 0.1% and 8 Ohms: about 290 watts
Bel Canto, THD 0.1% and 4 Ohms: about 300 watts
Maybe the key is a different PSU (s).
Marantz has this little SMPS. Hypex with heatsinks over the big caps.
Last edited:
NC1200 is different and was never replaced by NC500. The NC1200 is more powerful with lower impedance. It's only sold in some very expensive amps. Like the Mola-Mola and a few others.
They are hardly different. The power ratings are exactly the same as for NC500 if you drop the 2 Ohm load ratings which aren't really useful.
Both NC1200 and NC500 can provide 700W @ 4R and 400W @ 8R.
How I said three post before maybe the key is different PSU.
Marantz uses a little Hypex SMPS, with heatsinks over the big caps 105º. The heat is one of the problems of SMPS.
Marantz uses a little Hypex SMPS, with heatsinks over the big caps 105º. The heat is one of the problems of SMPS.
As the name of the module indicates, the NC1200 delivers 1200W at 2 ohm. NC500 is capable of 550W at 2 ohm. Whether this matters, completely depends on the speakers.
This one is raw charcoal, maybe it's twisted wires that makes the Marantz expensive?
AUDIOPHONICS PA-S500NC Amplificateur Stereo Class D NCore 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics
AUDIOPHONICS PA-S500NC Amplificateur Stereo Class D NCore 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics
Why do these amps have such high gain?
Dear Diyers, I stumbled across this great forum searching for information about "gain" of these fine NC500 modules. I read most of the 180 pages in here - understood maybe 3%....
I hope you guys can help me out. Let me explain:
Over the past weeks I tried several amps. Fell in love with the clarity and punch of these new generation Class D ones. I tried an Icepower 1200AS2. price/performance wise, i guess this one is hard to beat, but I was missing some "magic". Tested an Hypex NC500 based amp. Lovely kit, I think this is it.
Yet I have trouble with the high gain of the amp. I only stream music so I am testing several streamers as well. I currently own a NAIM Uniti Atom and used it's preamp out for most tests, but in parallel tried a LINN Selekt, a Lumin D2... etc.
Since the Streamer is the only source, my plan is to connect the streamer directly to the amp, bypassing any pre-amp that further "colors" the sound.
Now, using the 2V RCA output of the Lumin D2 for instance, at 25% volume the music is already extremely loud. Using the XLR it is already so at 11%. Same applies to other devices.
I experimented a bit more with the Lumin and tested some RCA attenuators. With -15db attenuation the volume is within an acceptable range (100% volume on RCA gives me around 88db at listening position, around 3m from speakers. Way too high for normal usage, but allowing some headroom). Switching to XLR I would probably need -20db attenuation.
Can someone explain me why these NC500 amps have such high gain of 26db? This applies to both NORD and Apollon. For what usecase is this usefull?
I compared the gain with several other power amps, and all that I looked into, had a lower gain even though they had a lower max output power. I'm not sure how to do the math here, but isn't this then an even bigger problem - higher output and more gain.
Compare it to the Benchmark AHB2 rated at 100W at 8ohm. This is 1/4th of the NC500. If I understood the math correctly, that means at maximum power the NC500 would be 6db louder (on same speakers). Yet the gain of the AHB2 (for 4V XLR) is 17db not 26db.
What do you guys think of it?
Does this high gain make any sense?
Is there an easy way to change it?
THX!
Dear Diyers, I stumbled across this great forum searching for information about "gain" of these fine NC500 modules. I read most of the 180 pages in here - understood maybe 3%....
I hope you guys can help me out. Let me explain:
Over the past weeks I tried several amps. Fell in love with the clarity and punch of these new generation Class D ones. I tried an Icepower 1200AS2. price/performance wise, i guess this one is hard to beat, but I was missing some "magic". Tested an Hypex NC500 based amp. Lovely kit, I think this is it.
Yet I have trouble with the high gain of the amp. I only stream music so I am testing several streamers as well. I currently own a NAIM Uniti Atom and used it's preamp out for most tests, but in parallel tried a LINN Selekt, a Lumin D2... etc.
Since the Streamer is the only source, my plan is to connect the streamer directly to the amp, bypassing any pre-amp that further "colors" the sound.
Now, using the 2V RCA output of the Lumin D2 for instance, at 25% volume the music is already extremely loud. Using the XLR it is already so at 11%. Same applies to other devices.
I experimented a bit more with the Lumin and tested some RCA attenuators. With -15db attenuation the volume is within an acceptable range (100% volume on RCA gives me around 88db at listening position, around 3m from speakers. Way too high for normal usage, but allowing some headroom). Switching to XLR I would probably need -20db attenuation.
Can someone explain me why these NC500 amps have such high gain of 26db? This applies to both NORD and Apollon. For what usecase is this usefull?
I compared the gain with several other power amps, and all that I looked into, had a lower gain even though they had a lower max output power. I'm not sure how to do the math here, but isn't this then an even bigger problem - higher output and more gain.
Compare it to the Benchmark AHB2 rated at 100W at 8ohm. This is 1/4th of the NC500. If I understood the math correctly, that means at maximum power the NC500 would be 6db louder (on same speakers). Yet the gain of the AHB2 (for 4V XLR) is 17db not 26db.
What do you guys think of it?
Does this high gain make any sense?
Is there an easy way to change it?
THX!
26dB gain looks to be standard around. Only the UcD3xMP modules, without the buffer stage is lower.
A simple and relatively cheap way to fix the gain problem is a set of Rothwell Attenuator Plugs. They can be had in 10dB and 20dB versions, for both RCA and XLR. Attenuators
Johan-Kr
A simple and relatively cheap way to fix the gain problem is a set of Rothwell Attenuator Plugs. They can be had in 10dB and 20dB versions, for both RCA and XLR. Attenuators
Johan-Kr
What nc500 amp are you running.
I run mine without an input buffer which lowers the gain to 13db, I think, was a long time ago I looked. Their input impedance is very low though will need something stiff to drive them.
You need the Hypex OEM buffers and a soldering iron if you want to do that or some knowledge.
Most of the nc500’s buffers are questionable but may suit your preference
I run mine without an input buffer which lowers the gain to 13db, I think, was a long time ago I looked. Their input impedance is very low though will need something stiff to drive them.
You need the Hypex OEM buffers and a soldering iron if you want to do that or some knowledge.
Most of the nc500’s buffers are questionable but may suit your preference
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.