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Old 18th April 2013, 12:37 PM   #541
na is offline na  Finland
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Very interesting thread, thanks for all.

I read your great interview in SpeakerBuilding site: - Interview with Joachim Gerhard of Audio Physic, Page 1

It was made in 1996, how much has there been development from those days in drivers and loudspeaker technology in your opinion?
What are the biggest "leaps" since then?

And thanks specially for you Joachim.
I am very much interested from the "audio history" also, it is nice to compare things from these days to older stuff.

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Old 18th April 2013, 01:00 PM   #542
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When i read that interview i am quite surprised how little has changed in my mind.
What has happened is better measurement and simulation capability and that had influences on the drivers.
The really big thing for me was when the Klippel Distortion Analyzer came out.
Not only that we learned to identify the main sources of distortion in a driver :
Magnet, suspension, inductance but also how to minimize them. An improvement of 10dB is possible compared to drivers from 20 years ago. That brought drivers with distortion under 0.1% and also more dynamic range and better power handling.
The next step for me was starting to use Praxis from Bill Waslo about 10 years ago.
Multi tone testing now got easy. I also used the radiation pattern option a lot using an automatic turntable.
The other interesting thing with Praxis is the possibility to isolate distortion, even with music as a test signal. I had that idea initially and Bill was able to put that into software.
I think i can make speakers now where distortion is not an audible limiting factor any more.
Then came LSP-Cad that gives the ability to make a " virtual speaker" and listen to it over headphones. That way i learned how much deviation from flat are tolerable ( i found plus-minus 2dB ) and that truncation in the bass is the most audible defect ones the mid-treble is flat enough.
Well, that is it in a nutshell but there is much more.
I think, yes, the sound i get now is much better then 20 years ago.
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Old 18th April 2013, 01:17 PM   #543
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I think i also can make better crossovers today and there are better passive parts.
I got quite fascinated with the new EVO caps from Mundorf for example.
There has also being progress in electronics. Most of it i build myself.
I never stopped listening to vinyl but i can now get consistent better sound from my analog rig then from CD despite the higher noise and the inferior speed stability.
I also tried very had to get better sound from high resolution digital.
The first step was a Pioneer universal player that actually did not sound good enough for me, even with SACD and 24Bit-196kHz. I then modified the electronics heavy but that did not solve the problem so i sold it. The next step was building a server. That sounded better but is still a work in progress. Now i am looking into computer hifi. At the moment i am using Foobar with some plug ins and a DAC based on ESS chips with an analog filter i designed, also a work in progress.
The best digital i heard was in a presentation of TAD Beryllium speakers.
The system was bi-wired with 4 big Pass amps, a Pass preamp and a really huge Pacific Microsonics DA converter. It was a master tape of Bob Skaggs live in the studio. That sounded pretty amazing so i know it can be done.
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Old 18th April 2013, 01:19 PM   #544
na is offline na  Finland
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So the same old ingredients still rules!
Paper, copper, magnets but the biggest thing is that chefs skills have improved
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Old 18th April 2013, 02:01 PM   #545
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The drivers got better sure, especially in terms of distortion an dynamics.
There are also a lot of exotic membrane material available now like Beryllium, Artificial Diamond, Ceramics, Carbon etc.
Also the development of paper cones goes on.
I visited Dr. Müller at Pro Light and Sound and they had interesting sandwiches based of paper with carbon, PE foam and others.
On the other hand the Satori Monitor proves that a top sounding speaker can be made with paper cones and soft domes.
There is a lot of juice in an old lemon.
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Old 19th April 2013, 02:33 AM   #546
ridikas is offline ridikas  United States
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Joachim, what resistors do you like to use to attenuate the tweeter? Mills WW? Mundorf WW? Have you ever experimented by paralleling many 1/2 watt metal film resistors? Thanks!

Last edited by ridikas; 19th April 2013 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 20th April 2013, 07:45 AM   #547
Catal is offline Catal  Italy
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Hi Mr. Gerhard, I've just bought a couple of Virgo mk1 speakers.
What can you tell me about this revision? what about rear bridge connection?
I have now a couple of Brilon monitors .

In the meanwhile waiting to match transistor for the Paradise mc phono stage .

This thread is very, very interesting to follow and I'm very courious about your Satory design developing.


Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
Thanks, i think it is the Virgo 2 you like, the one tested in Sterophile 1996.
I think it was 16 or 17 pages. The longest review ever. What really blew Michael Fremer away was the soundstage. They totally disapperaed.
I tell you a secret : the design of the crossover took less then a day, i would say the critical adjustments took lesss then an hour. Neither where the parts in the crossover particular big or expensive. The drivers where good quality but nothing special, just very well designed. This design proved for me conclusively " mind over matter".
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Old 20th April 2013, 11:22 AM   #548
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I use Mundorf Supreme resistors.
For prototyps i use wire wound or metal oxyde.

The Virgo 1 was the first floor standing Virgo. I think it came out in 1991. There was an even earlier model that was a two way on stands.
The bridges can be removed for bi-wiring or bi-amping.
Taking out one bridge and inserting a resistor the mid-treble range can be reduced in volume. Something between 1 Ohm and 3,3 Ohm can be tried.
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Old 20th April 2013, 11:24 AM   #549
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In the old days i sometimes paralleled metal film resistors.
We also did a lot of listening tests. Yes, resistor type is audible.
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Old 20th April 2013, 11:54 AM   #550
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This ones are the best bang for the bug :
I made a very interesting experience with this resistors.
When i insert them before the tweeter i have the impression that the sound stage gets higher. I have no idea why that is.
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