SB Acoustics Satori Monitor - Page 52

ton64 · 11th March 2013, 03:05 PM

Joachim,
Nice pictures of your present setup. One of them-the last one-with the blue power capacitors which are bypassed by the red capacitors have my attention. Which value do you have used for trying out? Read: Power Capacitor : Bypass Capacitor? I am working with Mundorf M-LYRIC HC-10.000uF-80VDC. Do you have an advice?
mbrton,

Joachim Gerhard · 11th March 2013, 03:26 PM

The power elcaps are B&C, i think 10.000uF or bigger.
The bypass are WIMA MKT, i think 2.2uF.
The M-lytics are even better, the best i know actually.
The bypass cap is kind of a philosophy.
I can be that when you bypass too strong the combination of elcap and bypass can resonate. I would start with 1uF MKT.
You can go up to more, say 3.3Uf and also can try Polypropylen.
Here on the forum you can find advice of how to optimize but then you have to measure.

ton64 · 11th March 2013, 05:53 PM

Joachim, regarding to the bypass thanks for your quick reply. Back to your Satori project. Looking to these nice picture of your present setup and the enclosure detail with the twisted,read slightly bended shape-I suppose it is made by strong stress/ resistance/ and tension- I must say it is an (very) intelligent way of manufacturing! If is made with wood only matbe it will disappear slowly (?). I enjoy your project very much and follow it with great pleasure.
wmbrton,

Joachim Gerhard · 11th March 2013, 06:31 PM

So far the cabinets show no sign of deterioration.
They are also heavy braced inside so i think they will be stable over time.

Max Martin · 16th March 2013, 04:09 PM

How is the midrange qualities in Satori compared to the Seas Nextel 5 inches you got?

Joachim Gerhard · 16th March 2013, 04:14 PM

The SEAS drivers are not that well impedance controlled and the Nextel cone is quite heavy.
The Satori has higher sensitivity, lower distortion and is more extended in the higher reaches.
As far as paper cones go i do not know a finer driver at the moment.

Max Martin · 18th March 2013, 11:53 PM

Thanks, for a honest answer Joachim. Without listening I guessed about the same.

I have some U18RNX/P with woven polycone and they are quite good but they can touch my SB17RNX when it comes to neutrality and open/dynamic midrange. I Also have used and own many Excel and they "excel" on some ways (magnesium cones) but I don't know, Seas is atleast doing much finer 4,5" and 5" drivers in my opinion.

I also now use 4 pcs of Seas L22RN4X/P with good results but my guts says to me "try SB 8" instead...." hehehe

Oouscchhh sometimes I got tired of all routering and changing baffles i get sick

Maybe should enjoy music too =)

Ok, enough of that... when i read Joachims "bypass-ing" talk i got interested. I use my pc as primary source with a dedicated soundcard and i was thinking maybe that powersupply could use some help? It's a Corsair CX430 with a main Cap rated at 400V/i forgot but i think it was just under 500uF.
Checked my DIY box and there was a 400V/ 1.5uF Mcap MKP, so why not?

An hour later I switch on my tubeamp and there was dark sound signature showing up, like the two upper octaves where missing. I thought instruments sounded maybe a bit better... (listened to Marks new Privateering album) and i got a bit depressed... hmmm... i went to bed cuz it was late.

Next day I didn't bother to listen at all till late at night and this time i got shocked! Wow there was a big step up, suddenly it was like listen to a tubeamp for the first time.. Envolving mid, great dynamics and so on...

Very happy now with that small tweak. Also feel after this that my computer is more stable. And it feels a bit more snappy speedwise too. maybe placebo

Joachim Gerhard · 19th March 2013, 01:44 AM

I use a lot of the SEAS metal cone drivers ( aluminum ).
This is a different story and needs totally different crossover technology.
When you change caps it needs a bit of time until they settle, especially electrolytics.

Max Martin · 19th March 2013, 04:21 AM

Yes, hard cones have to taking seriously when doing filter.

The 4 layer coil in my drivers with that high inductance helps alot when making a x-over. Already with a simply 12db (200-400hz) the peak are way down higher up.

There is a finnish brand called Aurelia. All metaldrivers (tweeter from seas titanium) Bas/mid unknown but every critic journalist seems to love them (at least here) Aurelia | The Beauty and the Music

Those I've listened to, wow. Impressive (also the design) but after 2-3 songs my ears bleeding. Maybe with some good tubeamp and varm cables =)

Joachim Gerhard · 19th March 2013, 05:14 AM

A 4 layer coil also has a disadvantage :
High Inductance. This is frequency and level dependent and creates a nasty type of distortion. When you limit it to the bass, fine.
The Satori is completely impedance compensated and does not have that problem.
The class leading low distortion shows that.

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11th March 2013, 03:05 PM	#511
ton64 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2013	Joachim, Nice pictures of your present setup. One of them-the last one-with the blue power capacitors which are bypassed by the red capacitors have my attention. Which value do you have used for trying out? Read: Power Capacitor : Bypass Capacitor? I am working with Mundorf M-LYRIC HC-10.000uF-80VDC. Do you have an advice? mbrton,

11th March 2013, 03:26 PM	#512
Joachim Gerhard diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2009	The power elcaps are B&C, i think 10.000uF or bigger. The bypass are WIMA MKT, i think 2.2uF. The M-lytics are even better, the best i know actually. The bypass cap is kind of a philosophy. I can be that when you bypass too strong the combination of elcap and bypass can resonate. I would start with 1uF MKT. You can go up to more, say 3.3Uf and also can try Polypropylen. Here on the forum you can find advice of how to optimize but then you have to measure.

11th March 2013, 05:53 PM	#513
ton64 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2013	Joachim, regarding to the bypass thanks for your quick reply. Back to your Satori project. Looking to these nice picture of your present setup and the enclosure detail with the twisted,read slightly bended shape-I suppose it is made by strong stress/ resistance/ and tension- I must say it is an (very) intelligent way of manufacturing! If is made with wood only matbe it will disappear slowly (?). I enjoy your project very much and follow it with great pleasure. wmbrton,

11th March 2013, 06:31 PM	#514
Joachim Gerhard diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2009	So far the cabinets show no sign of deterioration. They are also heavy braced inside so i think they will be stable over time.

16th March 2013, 04:09 PM	#515
Max Martin diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sweden And Finland	How is the midrange qualities in Satori compared to the Seas Nextel 5 inches you got?

16th March 2013, 04:14 PM	#516
Joachim Gerhard diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2009	The SEAS drivers are not that well impedance controlled and the Nextel cone is quite heavy. The Satori has higher sensitivity, lower distortion and is more extended in the higher reaches. As far as paper cones go i do not know a finer driver at the moment.

18th March 2013, 11:53 PM	#517
Max Martin diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sweden And Finland	Thanks, for a honest answer Joachim. Without listening I guessed about the same. I have some U18RNX/P with woven polycone and they are quite good but they can touch my SB17RNX when it comes to neutrality and open/dynamic midrange. I Also have used and own many Excel and they "excel" on some ways (magnesium cones) but I don't know, Seas is atleast doing much finer 4,5" and 5" drivers in my opinion. I also now use 4 pcs of Seas L22RN4X/P with good results but my guts says to me "try SB 8" instead...." hehehe Oouscchhh sometimes I got tired of all routering and changing baffles i get sick Maybe should enjoy music too =) Ok, enough of that... when i read Joachims "bypass-ing" talk i got interested. I use my pc as primary source with a dedicated soundcard and i was thinking maybe that powersupply could use some help? It's a Corsair CX430 with a main Cap rated at 400V/i forgot but i think it was just under 500uF. Checked my DIY box and there was a 400V/ 1.5uF Mcap MKP, so why not? An hour later I switch on my tubeamp and there was dark sound signature showing up, like the two upper octaves where missing. I thought instruments sounded maybe a bit better... (listened to Marks new Privateering album) and i got a bit depressed... hmmm... i went to bed cuz it was late. Next day I didn't bother to listen at all till late at night and this time i got shocked! Wow there was a big step up, suddenly it was like listen to a tubeamp for the first time.. Envolving mid, great dynamics and so on... Very happy now with that small tweak. Also feel after this that my computer is more stable. And it feels a bit more snappy speedwise too. maybe placebo

19th March 2013, 01:44 AM	#518
Joachim Gerhard diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2009	I use a lot of the SEAS metal cone drivers ( aluminum ). This is a different story and needs totally different crossover technology. When you change caps it needs a bit of time until they settle, especially electrolytics.

19th March 2013, 04:21 AM	#519
Max Martin diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sweden And Finland	Yes, hard cones have to taking seriously when doing filter. The 4 layer coil in my drivers with that high inductance helps alot when making a x-over. Already with a simply 12db (200-400hz) the peak are way down higher up. There is a finnish brand called Aurelia. All metaldrivers (tweeter from seas titanium) Bas/mid unknown but every critic journalist seems to love them (at least here) Aurelia \| The Beauty and the Music Those I've listened to, wow. Impressive (also the design) but after 2-3 songs my ears bleeding. Maybe with some good tubeamp and varm cables =)

19th March 2013, 05:14 AM	#520
Joachim Gerhard diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2009	A 4 layer coil also has a disadvantage : High Inductance. This is frequency and level dependent and creates a nasty type of distortion. When you limit it to the bass, fine. The Satori is completely impedance compensated and does not have that problem. The class leading low distortion shows that.