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Old 12th October 2012, 08:17 PM   #171
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Impressive! I can't hear distortion from the Seas ER18RNX but if one day I did I know exactly where to look next. The Satori seems to do everything right and it looks amazing. It begs to be used on an open baffle.
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Old 12th October 2012, 08:52 PM   #172
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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Wow distortion performance of the Satori kills the Seas ER18RNX, despite being a slightly smaller driver. Very impressive, though I'm not sure how that will translate to how it will sound.
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Old 12th October 2012, 11:14 PM   #173
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The SEAS has good distortion specs, better then most but the Satori is in a higher quality class. Sure, even 1% second harmonic does not sound like distortion to the ear. That is the problem with speakers anyway, at the end of the day they have to satisfy subjectively.
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Old 12th October 2012, 11:57 PM   #174
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Indeed the Satori is a notch above the SEAS. As long as the 2nd harmonic is around 55-60dB below the fundamental, I tend to ignore it. What I do pay attention to though is the level of 3rd harmonic, I am no driver designer so I don't know exactly how 3rd harmonic is generated in the motor, but it's quite clear that there tend to be two types of driver out there.

The first is like the ER18, it has low third harmonic at lower frequencies, but this then rises slowly as frequency increases. All of SEAS drivers tend to show this but the better excel drivers do manage to keep the level lower throughout the upper region of their range. The second set of drivers are like the Scan revelators/illuminators, the Vifa NE range and the Satori, where the third harmonic starts off low and remains low, often decreasing in level as frequency increases.

I am not sure what causes this difference, I do know that SEAS use T shaped pole pieces with copper rings, the other drivers most certainly use copper in the gap, but might use a different shape of pole to linearise the field through the gap and maybe it's this.

Clearly the latter is better for midrange performance, whereas the former, tend to give slightly better performance before the rise occurs. Of course you do need to compare apples with apples and although the ER18 is a nice driver it isn't quite up to the standard of the excel line.
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Old 13th October 2012, 01:49 AM   #175
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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The Excel line is a bit harder to use well though. Low crossover and still need to notch the breakup. Great candidate for active crossovers. I think I would try the Satori first.

Need to check, but I don't think I had much of a dip at 1K. Could be my baffle being a different size and radius. I do have something not quite perfect, as Joni Mitchel is a tiny bit off. I finished redoing my sub boxes so I will go back and measure in place.

It is clear from the measurements, the Saroti is a driver to be taken seriously. The Seas is a very good driver. Try it for a budget built, you may be impressed as I am. Every step in price does not always give a step in performance. (I could name a few that fail.) This one seems to.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you sure well won't get it if you don't.

I was measuring the SB29 today. Strange big offset in the resonance peak, and even after two days break-in, the Fs is still closer to 700; spec at 600. Not impressed yet. The published impedance curve does not show this. The back? I only have one, so nothing to compare it to.
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Old 13th October 2012, 02:21 AM   #176
_henry_ is offline _henry_  Australia
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here is interesting idea, although not a ladder config.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by _henry_; 13th October 2012 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 13th October 2012, 03:47 AM   #177
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Second comes from unsymmetrical distortion like the suspension that can be stiffer in one direction then the other and the "zero" is not where the driver is at rest. Because it is mainly from mechanical origin is rises more or less smooth with level. Third is symmetric distortion and i think the Satory has lower third because the impedance rise is extremely low because of a well designed motor with lots of copper. Scan Speak is a pioneer here so the drivers they make have also low third. The Exell from SEAS have also more copper in the gap and the T-Pole. Some of Scan Speak drivers are underhang so the variation of impedance over level is low at the price of less sensitivity unless a really huge magnet is used. The material of the magnet playes a role too because it effects the amount of distortion in the current that is fed back into the amplifier.
Here ferrite is not that good and Alnico and field coil best. You do not see that type of distortion in the voltage so it does not show in acoustic harmonic distortion measurements. You can learn more at Home.
I belong to the Klippel advanced users group and actually i bought the first Klippel system made straight from the table of Prof.Klippel more then 10 years ago.

Last edited by Joachim Gerhard; 13th October 2012 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 13th October 2012, 03:55 AM   #178
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When you want to spend even more then the Satori tweeter, here is an option.
Diamond has other disadvantages though. Mainly low efficiency in the upper regions because it does not benefit from the bending wave effect that decouples parts of the membrane and makes the moving mass lower the higher it goes. Pick your poison.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf E0100_T29D001_White_Diamond_Datasheet_Preliminary.pdf (167.9 KB, 224 views)
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Old 13th October 2012, 03:58 AM   #179
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Here is another tweeter with a stiff cone, sure it works like a piston, but the same effect.
The voice coil has to move a higher mass in the upper treble because the dome stays stiff.
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Old 13th October 2012, 03:59 AM   #180
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Default new tweeter

http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2908-714000.pdf
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