hypex ncore - Page 72 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Commercial Sector > Vendor Forums > Vendor's Bazaar

Vendor's Bazaar Commercial Vendors large & small hawking their wares

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th December 2011, 09:57 PM   #711
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
pieter, you are wrong. this is not a thread about class D in general. please open one about class D vs class A vs class AB vs robocop if you'd like to
the axe you're trying to grind is too large to hide.
Right

Cheers
Stein
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2011, 10:02 PM   #712
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Since Ncore is not there yet, and therefore there is not so much to discuss on that particular topic, there is nothing wrong with stretching the discussion a bit.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2011, 10:08 PM   #713
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Bas Horneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Blog Entries: 18
I think you are all correct on Pieter having an axe to grind. However I think you are wrong about which axe it is.

You think it is the anti Class D axe. But actually he is wielding the let's have a listen before we proclaim long live the new emperor. And I'm with Pieter on that one. I've had hypex groupies mail me and tell me that the Ucd's were the end of audio history. Then I had a listen and I was relieved that yes there were things they did very well. Especially at the cost. But still I felt no need to sell my tubes and output transformers.

And all the distortion measurements in the world don't mean one iota to me. The opinion of Bruno Putzeys however does carry significant weight from my point of view. Because here is someone who actually knows how to appreciate sound quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2011, 10:15 PM   #714
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: At the output stage
Send a message via Yahoo to mr_push_pull
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter t View Post
Since Ncore is not there yet, and therefore there is not so much to discuss on that particular topic, there is nothing wrong with stretching the discussion a bit.
I don't disagree with this one, but the last few replies are already contradictory. what does one make of this? it doesn't add anything useful. am I the one who's right? or is it you or barrows? what's the truth?
if you'd like my frank opinion, I totally agree with Bruno as to the fact that most of the sonic character of some class A designs is perfectly explainable and most likely you won't find it in a very low damping factor, low distortion design.
I never denied that that bloated bass can be pleasant in some circumstances but OTOH when faced with the sound of a ruler-flat frequency response, very low damping-factor amp, I don't have many doubts which one has the "right" sound.
also, Bob Katz which I mentioned above has switched from the XA to Lipinski class D amps. not trying to invoke the argument of authority here but just trying to point at the futility of this debate.
__________________
we all love a good ol' stereotype until it's against us
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2011, 10:26 PM   #715
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: At the output stage
Send a message via Yahoo to mr_push_pull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bas Horneman View Post
I've had hypex groupies mail me and tell me that the Ucd's were the end of audio history. Then I had a listen and I was relieved that yes there were things they did very well. Especially at the cost. But still I felt no need to sell my tubes and output transformers.
tube amps with 5% THD get good reviews all the time. so do many (Hypex-based or not) class D amps.
some (commercial) class A amps yielded in my system that bloated bass that many are mentioning. still many rave about that sound. I repeat the question: WHO is right and who is wrong? what I'm getting at should be obvious.
all manufacturers would have us believe their products re the end all be all and still I don't see consensus. what's the reason for this?
and I would disagree that measurements don't tell a thing. it's us being unable to correctly interpret them in the context of human hearing and that will stay unchanged for a long period of time, making audio design a somewhat random excercise.
__________________
we all love a good ol' stereotype until it's against us
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2011, 10:34 PM   #716
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Let's wait and see what Ncore has to offer.
I am not against class D or whatever well executed topology; actually I built some class D amps to see how they perform, especially in terms of sound quality.
Among these were Hypex (stock version, "better" input op-amp version, even tube front end transformer coupled version), and Philips (now NXP) TDA8920.
Almost always the Hypex amps were best in the bass department, and the TDA8920 sounded most of the time a bit finer in mid and treble.
Like class d you can not generalize other topologies because differences within a particular topology can be huge.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2011, 10:35 PM   #717
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Bas Horneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Blog Entries: 18
Quote:
WHO is right and who is wrong?
I am right. Everyone else is wrong!

On a more serious note. I'm just glad Hypex is considering the diy community. Let's face it. Audio has been living off the scraps of technology from other fields. The resurgent tube, lp and new tech such as computer audio, Class D, SIT. Field Coil speakers. Wideband drivers. Bla. bla. bla. And what else have you. Makes for interesting times. Then again there is a Chinese curse which goes something like this. "May you live in interesting times!"

Last edited by Bas Horneman; 8th December 2011 at 10:38 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2011, 11:21 PM   #718
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
diyAudio Member
 
Eva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Near the sea
Send a message via MSN to Eva
This is not about electronics, two different knowledge/perception systems are in conflict.
__________________
I use to feel like the small child in The Emperor's New Clothes tale
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2011, 12:17 AM   #719
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrows View Post
Real live music has a really warm sound to my ears-much like the sound reproduced by Pass XA .5 series class A amps. As opposed to much of what seems to be the Hi Fi sound I hear at many shows. Although I would not say that the Pass XA .5 series amps are "soft" at all. Same goes for Vitus Class A designs, transparent, and naturally warm to my ears.
So many class D amps seem to miss out on this part of the musical spectrum. And I am not talking about additive colorations, although some older class A designs certainly have these (Aleph series). I am hopeful that the nCores finally deliver a class D amp which does not compromise musical values.
Barrows,
As I see it there are many good designs out there of any class -even class B (or in reality just very close to). What i meant to say is that that to my ears class A as a mode of operation isnīt necessarily preferable to other classes although many seem to suggest that. To my ears each class bares both pros and cons along with their inherent construction but, as I tried to express, other factors often play a far greater role than the mode of operation. A very different aspect is of course personal preferences which inherently varies making us prefer some virtues and some downsides over others.

I am not sure what you mean by "real live music has a warm sound to my ears". To my experience that depends on what is performed -and where. Oh boy acoustics sound different and any amp that makes the different room ambiances sound similar is adding something to the mix -also no matter what the class of operation is. I personally just get tired of hearing records sounding more or less the same, and that is an inherent problem in any "HIFI" and (often even worse in many) "HI-END" components.

cheers,
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2011, 04:57 AM   #720
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
I'am copying from ncore wp.pdf ''
Across the audio band, loop gain never drops below
53dB. Compare this to linear amplifiers that may
have much more at 10Hz, but rarely better than
25dB at the end of the audio range. In fact, most
likely you have indeed never heard an amplifier
with “a lot of feedback”, although you may have
certain ideas about feedback based on hearing
amplifiers that you thought had a lot of feedback.
Time to try and to be very surprised what it sounds
like ''
I was referring to this one that is supposed to be unique in the industry.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hypex problem, who can help Hansms Class D 9 18th August 2013 06:49 AM
Hypex steveww Class D 14 18th November 2010 01:44 PM
Question for those who have tried hypex smps with hypex modules avian Class D 12 3rd March 2009 09:30 AM
Hypex UcD 180AD + signal wires, Power Supply ST, Hypex Transformer TR100A c10h12n2 Swap Meet 7 7th July 2007 03:55 PM
FS: Hypex UcD 400/180AD, hypex toroid Archmage Swap Meet 4 14th November 2006 04:23 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:44 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Đ1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2